[tied] Re: h3elh1- => destroy, anihilate

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, alex <alxmoeller@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> alexandru_mg3 schrieb:
>
> > > > As far as I see, hal in Romanin has exactly the
> > meaning 'situation,
> > > > position', so I am afraid that it is really the loan from

Turkish.

> >
> > No. Romanian hal has almost the same meaning as the Albanian word.
> >
> > "In ce hal esti!" -> 'In what disaster/physical-trouble/bad-status
> > you are!'
>
>
> and what should be wrong here if the original semantism was
> "postion", "situation"? It appears to me that this "hal" fits
> perfectly the other turkish loans, having as most of them a
> peiorative connotion and a big spot of colour in speach when

someone

> use these kind of words. Honestly, I guess this is a loan from
> Turkish. This "hal" has synonims just bad position, bad situation
> bad habit, bad aspect thus the meaning which fits the

Arabic/Turkish

> meaning. Actually it is a "Bereicherung" of the language having a
> word which means bad position, habit, situation, aspect, looking

and

> you can say them all just using "hal".The semnatism developed as
> almost all other words from Turkish, they have been used on the low
> level stilistic scala. They are there to be used mostly peiorative
> less they mean something to eat or drink :-))
>
> Alex
>

Sorry, Alex, but your explanation above is a pure 'ad-hoc' one.

You know as me, that the Romanian word 'hal' clearly point to ' a
very very bad situation, a big trouble, a bad injury etc..' (so
nothing peiorative in this word) we don't have a word in Romanian to
indicate better 'the worst situation' than 'hal' (excluding of course
the 'dead' situation)

On this aspect, Albanian and Romanian clearly point to one and the
same word : now, if this word is a Turkish loan, than it should be a
Turkish loan in both Languages.

So if in Turkish, the word has/had a 'minimum' meaning of 'bad,
trouble, sorrow' OK for me, but if not, the semantic will not fit =>
why 2 languages, separated by more than 600 KM when the Turks arrived
in Balkans, to develop such a similar meaning that didn't exist in
the supposed source language?

Marius