Germanic folk

--- In cybalist@... s.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@ ...> wrote:

> --- In cybalist@... s.com, Carl Hult <datalampa@> wrote:
>
> > Excuse me for barging in like this, but have you considered the
> > name Hermann in this? I know it's a long shot but the name
> > Hermann and the word germanus have similar properties
>
> Which are?
>
> > and since the romans thought of the germanic tribes as being what
> > the name Hermann means,
>
> I don't think we have any records if what the Romans thought the
> name Hermann meant, or that they were aware it existed.
>
> > namely army of men,
>
> The other way around, man of army, *harja-mannaz
>
> > it's not that far away as a theory.
>
> Erh, it is.

What about the etymology of the Latin exonym Germania and of the
related Latin ethnonym Germani? Are the following discussions found
in Wikipedia reliable?

http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Germanic_ peoples

<< Various etymologies for Latin Germani are possible. As an
adjective, germani is simply the plural of the adjective germanus
(from germen, "seed" or "offshoot"), which has the sense of "related"
or "kindred" [Note: and whence derives Catalan germà, Spanish hermano
and Portuguese irmão, "brother".] As an ethnonym, the word is first
attested in 223 BC, in the Fasti Capotolini inscription, DE GALLEIS
INSVBRIBVS ET GERM, where it may simply refer to "related" peoples,
viz. related to the Gauls. If the later proper name Germani derives
from this word, it may refer from this use based on Roman experience
of the Germanic tribes as allies of the Celts.

The name is first used in its sense of "peoples of Germania, as
distinguished from Gauls" by Julius Caesar. In this sense, , it may
be a loan from a Celtic exonym applied to the Germanic tribes, based
on a word for "neighbour". A third suggestion derives it directly
from the name of the Hermunduri.

The suggestion deriving the name from Gaulish term for "neighbour"
invokes Old Irish gair, Welsh ger, "near", Irish gearr, "cut, short"
(a short distance), from a Proto-Celtic root *gerso-s, further
related to ancient Greek chereion, "inferior" and English gash. The
Proto-Indo-European root could be of the form *khar-, *kher-, *ghar-,
*gher-, "cut", from which also Hittite kar-, "cut", whence also Greek
character. >>

http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Names_for_ Germany

<< The name Germany and the other similar-sounding names above are
derived from the Latin Germania, of the 3rd century BC, a word of
uncertain origin. The name appears to be a Gaulish term, and there is
no evidence that it was ever used by the Germanic tribes themselves.
Julius Caesar was the first to use Germanus in writing when
describing tribes in northeastern Gaul in his Commentarii de Bello
Gallico; he records that four Belgic tribes, namely, the Condrusi,
Eburones, Caeraesi and Paemani, were collectively known as Germani.
In 98, Tacitus wrote Germania (the Latin title was actually: De
Origine et situ Germanorum), an ethnographic work on the diverse set
of Germanic tribes outside the Roman Empire. Unlike Caesar, Tacitus
claims that the name Germani was first applied to the Tungri tribe.

Whether the Belgae were Celts or Germanic tribes occupied 19th
century and early 20th century historians. Caesar claims that most of
the Belgae were descended from tribes who had long ago crossed the
Rhine from Germania. However most of the tribal and personal names
recorded are identifiably Celtic. It seems likely that the Belgae had
a mixture of Celtic and Germanic ancestry. Perhaps they were Germanic
people ruled by a Celtic élite, or were a political alliance of
Celtic and Germanic tribes, or, like the later Normans, were a
formerly Germanic-speaking people who adopted the language of the
lands they migrated to. In any case, the Romans were not precise in
their ethnography of northern barbarians: by "German(ic)" Caesar may
simply have meant "originating east of the Rhine", with no
distinction of language intended.

The OED2 records theories about the Celtic roots of the Latin word
Germania: one is gair, neighbour (a theory of Johann Zeuß, a German
historian and Celtic philologist) -- in Old Irish gair
is "neighbour". Another theory is gairm, battle-cry (put forward by
Johann Wachter and Jacob Grimm, who was a philologist as well as
writing fairy tales). Yet another theory is that the word comes from
ger, "spear"; however, Eric Partridge suggests *gar/gavin, to shout
(as Old Irish garim), describing the Germanic tribesmen as noisy. He
describes the ger theory as "obsolete". >>

Thanks and best regards,
Francesco