Re: [tied] Latin is a q-Dialect having p- from kW , PIE is simil

On 2007-05-15 00:44, alexandru_mg3 wrote:

> p-Celtic *pempe
> pre-Germanic *pempe
> p-Italic *pVmpe very probable *pempe too..
>
> I mean this is quite enough to postulate : Dialectal PIE *pempe

Of course it isn't, and nobody to my knowledge has postulated any such
thing. Regular and independently confirmed sound changes account for
Gallo-Brittonic and Sabellic *pempe, so no arbitrary "dialectal variant"
is needed for them. The most parsimonious Proto-Italic and Proto-Celtic
reconstruction is actually *kWenkWe (if one accepts the Italo-Celtic
hypothesis, this is one of the shared innovations of both branches). It
accounts not only for the *pempe reflexes but also for Lat. qui:nque,
which you can't explain at all.

> Also I cannot see the link with *kWenkWe : in petwores we don't have
> p ...kW in wlkWos we don't have p...kW : why to invoke kWenkWe when
> the probleam is more general that this kind of assimilations...

That's why the Germanic facts have to be explained on their own. The
Germanic *f ~ *x(W) variation has its own pattern, different from what
we see in Italic and Celtic. Similarly, although we have developments
like *kW > p in Greek, they are entirely different in details, and so
must be independent of, the changes in Italic, Celtic and Germanic.

> NEXT: 'What seems to have happened in Germanic' (what you described
> below) is only a suposition

So what? Almost everything in comparative reconstructions is
hypothetical. What counts is how well the reconstruction fits the evidence.

> By the way: In wulfaz there is no distant asimilation of *kW/*xW in
> *petwores no distant assimilation either

'Cos you say so? The Germanic material in question suggests otherwise.

> we have *penpe > *pempe in Germanic , p-Celtic and p-Italic : three
> distinct evolutions ? why not a single dialectal form *pempe in PIE?

Because it appears ONLY in the languages where we can expect it to
result from branch-specific phonological changes.

> lupus is found too in another Language that shows no kW > p

Namely?

> ...so
> this type of argumentation is not sufficient : lupus is there and is
> from wlkwos doesn't matter is provenience...same for apa

Piotr