Re: Pre-Germanic p -> *p- in 'four'

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Wordingham" <richard@>

wrote:

> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > After Romanian kw > k/p 'duality' another similar and

unexplained

> > > situation is that one of "pre-germanic p" originated in PIE *kW
> >
> > > So we have kw/p alternance spreaded in : Celtic, Italic,

Germanic,

> > > Balkans (Romania)....as I said this duality kw/p need

a 'global'

> > > explanation.
> >
> > The best explanation I've seen is the postulation of *pW. See
> > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/9530 and
> > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/14885 et seq.
> >
> > I don't believe there is any problem in Celtic or pre-Romance

Italic -

> > the development was pretty regular. The basic point in these
> > languages is that a change of the type kw > p is always possible.
> >
> Hans Kuhn: Das letzte Indogermanisch has the following Germanic

doublets:

> "
> kriechen und nd. krupen,
> [Pok. *gr-eu- + -g / + -b, Balt., Germ.]
> streichen und streifen,
> [Pok. *str-ei- + -g / + -b, Celt., Balt. Germ.]
> tauchen und taufen,
> [Pok. ?, *dheu-b-, Gr., Celt., Balt., Germ.]
> nd. Siek und Siepen "feuchte Bodensenke",
> [Pok. *seikW- *seip-, Skt., Ital. Celt. Balt. Germ.]
> engl. shrink und hd. schrumpfen,
> [Pok. ?, *skerb(h)-, *skreb(h)-, Gr., Ital., Balt., Germ.)
> Strunk und Strumpf,
> [Pok. *strenk *streng-, ?, Gr., Celt. Germ.]
> got. *auhns/ altschw. ugn und dt. Ofen,
> an. ylgr "Wölfin" und ulfr ,Wolf,
> dt. leihen und bleiben
> "
>
> Odd geographical distribution, if it's caused by a PIE morpheme and
> not substrate.
>
>
> Torsten
>

Proto-Germanic 'four (4)' reflects for sure a *p- not a *kw-

Maybe we need to supose a PIE variant with *p- for '4' ?

Any help here?

Thanks,
Marius