Re: Romanian APA

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "stlatos" <stlatos@...> wrote:

>
>
> You've given me so much to respond to I'll try to go over the main
> points (but not all) and reorder your questions.
>

I will start with Romanian topics:

> > We have Romanian Dunare with u- again, versus Danuvius and the

dan-

> > root
>
> That's metathesis of a: and u.

This is a pure suposition => you need to treat globally all the words

Danuvius/Dunare ,
muma/mama,
burujana/barurina,
burta/bark,
Mures/Marisia
etc...

and I could still add other cases.

> > So when the above toponyms 'were already there' the Romans
> > arrived in Balkans and the Balkan Romance > Romanian finally has
> > today APA as water-word 'like' in the above toponyms and like in

the

> > ancient PIE root ap- too...Pure coincidence? I will not bet on

this...

>
> It doesn't matter what words came from PIE in the distant past;
> Latin is the source of most current words

You are right:
The Situation Of Proto-Romanian < Balkan Romance was
75% - Latin words
25% - Substratual words
The structure of Proto-Romanian is a Latin one.

But I cannot see why we cannot talk about Substratual words

> and kw>p is a simple and certain recent change.

Based on what you can established 'a recent timeframe' :
We have
codru supposed to be from *quodrum < Latin quadrum
in the same time
patru supposed to be from Latin quattuor

Both cannot be true...you need to justify your timeframes

> > On the other hand, in Romanian a word like codru 'seems' (to

use

> > your terminology) to be from a supposed Latin *quodrum

(unattested) <

> > Latin quadrum 'in the same time'... so something isn't clear

enough

> > with all these and especially with the timeframe of Romanian kW>p

gW>b

>
> There was simply kwo>ko beforehand.

1. First there was no short-o in Romanian-Substratum or ProtoAlbanian
2. Next there is no o in Latin quadrum (the reconstructed *quodrum is
a mess)
3. third Romanian never passed an a to an o

So, The ONLY source of Rom.codru/Alb.kod&r could be *kwa:- that could
gave ko- both in Romanian and Albanian.

Regarding the 'beforehand' idea, if I will try to folow you
timeframes, you supposed that

*quodrum < quadrum entered in Balkans before (like 200 hundred years
before) Latin quattuor ?

I cannot take this seriously

> > The main point here: is that Proto-Romanian 'shared' almost

all

> > the phonetic rules with Proto-Albanian, including that ones of

the

> > pair codru / kod&r but their is no trace of kW>p gW>b for Proto-
> > Albanian...
> Albanian is not descended from Latin; the relatively late rules

that

> inlcude kw>p aren't shared and have no need or reason to be.
>

You didn't catch my point :

Romanian codru and Albanian kod&r reflects kw- > k- not kw-> p , in
line with PAlb. and with all common phonetic rules between Romanian-
Substratum and PAlb.

BUT this is in contradiction with the kw- > p for Romanian

Marius