Re: Ebre = spanish river = celtiberic roots ?

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tonsls" <ton.sales@...> wrote:

>
> In (Proto)Basque there are two words for river: uhalde (in Eastern
> dialects), analyzed as ur-alde (=water-edge) and (Western) ibai,
> assumed a derivative of ibar (=riverside, valley). (I'm not making
> this up, I take it from Trask.) When I said that the present consensus
> linked Ibe:ros to ibar I referred to ibar, not ibai. It may not be so
> unreasonable to do so. Joan Coromines (a Basque specialist himself)
> does it. In his Onomasticon Cataloniae (1995) he says: "It is by no
> means mere idle hypothesizing to derive ibe:ros from the
> Basque-Iberian ibar —whence the (Roman-attested) Iberian adjective
> ibarcensis—, as Schuchard, Meyer-Lübke and Bertoldi all did. In that
> case it would be the name of the Ibe:roi the one that would derive
> from the name of the river, and not vice versa. I think it is likely"
> (He actually says "I find it probable".)
>

Actually, the word is ibarr, with strong rhotics. This apparent alternation between -i/-rr can be also observed in the words bizkarr 'back (body), crest (geographical)' and Bizkai-a.

If ibarr had been borrowed into Greek, it surely would had arisen as *iba:ros > ibe:ros.

I think ibai/ibarr are genuine Vasconic words, with a (somewhat) distant relative in NEC.