Re: [tied] Re: PIE i- and u-stems again

On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 19:33:36 +0100, Piotr Gasiorowski
<gpiotr@...> wrote:

>On 2007-02-16 18:09, mcarrasquer wrote:
>
>> No because you do _not_ get the same result. Adding -n to the
>> thematic vowel would result in a paradigm:
>>
>> +kato-n-s
>> +kato-n-m
>> +kato-n-Vs
>> +kato-n-ei
>> etc.
>>
>> Instead of what it actually is:
>>
>> *kat-h3o:n
>> *kat-h3on-m
>> *kat-h3(e)n-os
>> *kat-h3(e)n-ei
>> (or something along those lines)
>
>The Hoffmann "suffix" functions more like a compound member, its
>addition to a _thematic_ stem results in something like
>*-o-h3o:n/*-o-h3n-os.

Yes.

>There is also a similar type of derivative
>(presumably archaic), found e.g. in various group-nouns, with the
>thematic vowel replaced by *-i- (hence Gmc. *-i:n- and *-jo:n- stems).
>Note also feminines in *-o-h3n-íh2 like Ved. Indra:n.í: (Olsen's analysis).
>
>Actually, however, the "Cato type", which is deadjectival and probably
>distinct from the Hoffmann formation (though often merging with it in
>the IE branches), may go back to *katV-h1-o:n/*katV-h1-n-os (the
>thematic vowel should in theory have been *e, but the analogical
>restoration of *o would not be surprising). After the disappearance of
>*h1 we get *kato::(n), *kato:nos. The above is my guess and I'm not sure
>if Birgit Olsen would analyse this formation in exactly the same way.

You said earlier that words of the "Cato type" may have been
"originally -n(t)- participles of stative verbs, derived in
turn from adjectives (*X-h1-on(t)- '[singled out as] being
X').". But stative verbs, like e.g. Slavic slabêti (< slabU
"weak") do not contain the thematic vowel. The suffix is
*-éh1- (aor. & inf.) ~ *-éih1- (pres.sg.) ~ *-h1i-
(pres.pl.), not *-o-eh1- ~ *-o-eih1- ~ *-o-h1i-.

=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
miguelc@...