[tied] Re: On the ordering of some PIE rules

From: tgpedersen
Message: 47165
Date: 2007-01-29

>
> ****GK: Is there any term in the Germanic languages
> which can be proved to be a loan from Iranian PRIOR to
> the "Grimm" sound shift?****

*paT- is the only example I can think of, which BTW is generally
acknowledged as such. *gatu- might be another. However, Kuhn also has
('Anlautend p- im Germanischen')
"
6. *p a T - "Pfad, treten". Der Stamm soll auf iran. paT- "Weg"
beruhen, das mit gr. pátos "Weg" zur Sippe von gr. póntos "Meer" und
germ. finTan "finden" gehört. Aber das Iranische liegt reichlich fern.
Näher liegt idg. *ped- *pod- „Fuß", das in lat. peda, aind. pada und
andern auch Bezeichnungen für die Fußspur und in altn. fet für den
Schritt gestellt hat. Das Bremisch-nds. Wörterbuch bezeugt ein pad n.
"Fußsohle", das Altmärkische von Danneil padd'n „Fußspuren".
"

Because of the initial p- this word can't be Germanic. That's why
those that haven't heard of or don't believe in the existence of
NWBlock must find another origin. That explanation won't work with
many other words in p- in Germanic.

I could also explain away the p- by assuming *paTa- was borrowed as a
religious term, ie. from 'High Iranian". Late Iranian generalized p-
everywhere. I think I saw 'the way' in some Iranian religious
connection, but I forgot where.

The dearth of Iranian loanwords in Germanic is an embarrassment to my
idea. On the other hand, if there is a connection a flow of refugee of
officers of all languages from Mithridates' collapsing army they might
have just picked up a PreGermanic-Iranian lingua franca that had
developped in the area for several hundred years.


Torsten