Re: [tied] Help with Germanic & Scythian etymology

Joao,

I agree with your association of Ing with Yngvi-Freyr as this is well
documented. As to Irmin = Odin, yes Odin is called Jormunr in one
text, however Turville-Petre (pg 62) points out this is likely an
usurped name, further as the name irmin seems to mean "giant, great,
enormous" the term would be more fittingly applied to Thor. This is
why there is some controversy in the matter.
In order to clarify things, could you explain the etymology and
reason you link Istvo to Thor?

Sincerely,
Aydan

PS: Furthermore, I agree that when you bring in Ymir and the Norse
myths you get:

Ymir/Buri = Tuisto = Fethuir = Jove = Zeus
Bor = Mannus = Alanus = Targitaus = Hercules
Odin/Ve = Istaev/Iscio = Hisicion = Scythian son 1?
Ve/Odin = Irmin = Armenon = Scythian son 2?
Vili = Ing = Neugio = Scythian son 3?

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Joao S. Lopes" <josimo70@...> wrote:
>
> Tuisto < *twi- "two, twin", was the same as Norse Ymir, the
Hermaphrodit Primordial Giant (PIE theme, akin to Indian Purus.a,
Greek Eros Protogonos).
> Irmin = *Ermunaz, -inaz = Odinn
> Istvo = Istwaz, -an = Thorr
> Ingvo = Yngvi-Freyr
>
>
> Joao SL
>
> "A." <xthanex@...> escreveu:
Greetings all,
>
> I was looking back over a couple of myths regarding Germanic,
Norse, and eventually Scythian origins.... and thought perhaps
someone here could help me out a bit?
>
> In Gmc myth the proto-ancestor is Tuisto/Tuisco, who then has a
son Mannus (man) who in turn has three sons: Ing, Irmin, and
Istaev/Iscio.
>
> Tuisto is generally believed to derive from *tvi- "two" , and thus
to have a name which reflects an androgynous nature similar to that
of Ymir (with who Tuisto shares some features).
> Elsewhere some have put forth the idea that Tuisto is based on the
> word for "conflict/dispute/division" which also springs from *tvi-
> (German zwist, Swedish tvista, Dutch twisten)
>
> Jakob Grimm suggested the name and variant forms (Thuisco,
Thuiskon, Tuisco) come from the adjective tivisco derived from the
name of the god Tiu; (from *Tîwaz), and the adjective derived from it
could mean either "celestial" or "son of Tiu".
>
> My first question is whether anyone can shed any light on the
> likelihood of one etymology versus another??
>
> -----
>
> The second matter is that of Mannus' son Istaev/Iscio - can anyone
> offer an etymology to this? (
the name Irmin seems to mean "mighty/giant" , while Yngvi is a term
used in skaldic poetry to mean "king" and is another name for Frey)
>
> -----
>
> In the "History Of The Britons" (Historia Brittonum) by Nennius,
> Mannus is referred to by the name "Alanus" - with his sons being
> Hisicion, Armenon, and Neugio (to match Istaev/Iscio, Irmin, and
Ing)
> Lastly Tuisco seems to be replaced by a character named Fethuir.
> Again, if anyone had any suggestions for ANY of the above
individuals it would mean a lot.
>
> -----
>
> A last possible correlate to the above matching tales, is that
told by Herodotus regarding the ancestry of the Scythians.
> Here a man named Targitaus (a son of Jove) begat three sons,
> Leipoxais, Arpoxais, and Colaxais.
>
> Right after that Herodotus mentions the tale told by the Pontic
> Greeks about the origin of the Scythians. In this story Hercules
(son
> of Zeus) begets three sons named Agathyrsus, Gelonus, Scythes.
> In the two Scythian tales Colaxais and Scythes are equated but I
> cannot determine the other brothers.
>
> Tuisto = Fethuir = Jove = Zeus
> Mannus = Alanus = Targitaus = Hercules
> Istaev/Iscio = Hisicion =?
> Irmin = Armenon =?
> Ing = Neugio =?
>
> I apologize for just throwing this out here, I know it is a bunch
of names, but I thought as they are all interconnected, it might be
best to put forth all the questions at once.
>
> Sincerely,
> Aydan