Re: [tied] Re: o-grade thoughts

On 2006-08-30 00:41, tgpedersen wrote:

> You got that right. I'm trying to explain an ablaut variant and
> you are declaring there is nothing to explain.

I'm doing nothing like that. I'm just referring to Jens's theory that
the O-fix does NOT derive from the root vowel historically, and so is
NOT its ablaut variant.

>> What I mean is: there's no accent retraction in the *tomh1-ó-s
>> and *tomh1-á-h2 types,
>
> Because they are derived from an athematic *tom-s, *tom-ós

How does that explain the final accent, or the non-reduction of
*tomh1ó-s to *tm.h1-ós?

>> or in *-éje/o- causatives.
>
> Two separate words. *mon éjeti. Or *monéh1 jeti, with
> instrumental case?

The effect of the laryngeal would be visible in this context.

> But that is no what ablaut is about. One of the vowels would
> have to be zero grade, unless there were special circumstances.

Reduplication itself is a kind of special circumstance. Originally, both
vowels may have been accented, since each belonged to a (different copy
of the same) lexical morpheme without any affixes.

> Bang-bang means two bangs, whether done by one person or several.
>
>
>> As a matter of
>> fact, I don't know _any_ examples of IE reduplication expressing
>> plurality, in verbs or in nouns.
>>
>
> Except for the plural of perf. or iteratives (OHG bebo:n =
> contract muscles in fear several times).

That's iterativity again, not plurality.

>> The only sure case of an
>> unreduplicated perfect (both in the singular and in the plural) is
>> *woid-/*wid-,
>> and there are reasons to believe that it represents an
>> exceptionally early case of de-reduplication (due perhaps to its
>> frequency of use).
>
> What reasons? Semantics provides a good reason: Knowing is not
> countable. Neither is being able to or willing to.

Reasons like the fact that the perf. part. of 'know' is not
*wóid-wot/us- or the like but *wéid-wot/us-, whose first syllable is
best explained as a regular reduplicated form, *wé-wid-, contracted into
*weid- already in PIE.

Piotr