Etymological speculation is usually frowned on by Cybalist, I do
realise, but I post the comments below in case Peter and Joao have
maintained their interest in Darwin's original posting (below mine).
Those not interested, look away now!
The sound-change d-l or l-d is evident in the English words "tongue" and
"lingual" - one from Germanic, the other from Latinic. Related words are
perhaps "talk" and "lick". An intermediate form in a d-l-d shift may be
represented in the Welsh -ll- sound. If you can resist being distracted
by the flying spittle when a Welshman says the name "Llewellyn", you can
hear elements of the three sounds -t-, -th- and -l- in his -ll-. The
the last two sounds may give us the origin of the word "slang".
Explaining the Odysseus-Ulysses equivalence depends on whether we take
the root-syllable to be -d/l or -s. Positing the former, and applying
the "Llewellyn" analogy, the development becomes clear. Since a
general tendency exists for a shift from -th- to -s-, one might expect
variant forms such as - to pick two legendary names entirely at random -
Isis and (I)esus, both from an undiscovered intermediate Othlis.
Ancient names do indicate a preference for the continued reverence of
"legendary" names, in times when there was little practical distinction
between gods and heroes.
How ancient? Well, it is never safe to claim that any culture invented
the name of its god. Since we don't know the significance of the
vowel+consonant form of Od/Ul, we can't say whether the initial vowel
was once preceded by a consonant. (And to the best of my knowledge we
don't look for one.) Norse Od-in was Woden in another dialect, and God
in yet another. Might Medusa have been a variant of Odysse(us)? It
might be argued that Medusa is too close to pre-Hebrew Methusa(leh) to
be independently derived. As Odysseus and Ulysses, so Medusa and Melasa
or similar? I have no idea; I have never come across a Melasa or
Melissa or such. There was a Pallas/Pelas/Philis, and an m/p shift is
not unknown in etymology. Drawing a bow at a venture, one might
reasonably speculate that the *original* versions of all these names
(not the Norse ones) derive from an early Semitic god. Bel/El springs
to mind, but that may be a speculation too far.
Gordon Barlow
> > Odysseus - Ulysses Whence did these opposing names for a single
> > character emerge? Was the latter an Etruscan change of some sort?
"C. Darwin Goranson"
> The relationship is unclear. There are forms with -l- already in
> Greek, but it could also be part of the sound change d > l in some
> Latin words, which is possibly simply dialect borrowing. Peter
> Variants Odysseus, Olysseus, Olyseus, Olytteus, O:lusseus, Oulikseus,
> > Oulikse:s Alternation d/l is present in daphne/laphne,
> labyrinthos/da-pu-ri-to Joao S. Lopes
>