On 2006-07-05 15:55, Abdullah Konushevci wrote:
> I now correct this last point: pishk – peshk can be only an
> inheritance from IE. If it were a borrowing from Latin, as a 3rd
> declension noun piscis (Italian pesce) would give a singular pishq –
> peshq (the latter less than likely in vocalism); cf.
> qelq `bicchiere, gotë' < Lat. calice(m), gjyq < Lat. judice(m).
These are not strictly parallel to piscis (acc. piscem > VL pesce),
since they involve final -ix/-ex, -icem. To tell the truth, I can't
recall any obvious Latin loans in -scis in Albanian (what could have
they been, by the way? fascis and proboscis/promuscis seem to be the
only real possibilities beside piscis). The singular with -shk may well
be analogical after the pattern of mik 'friend' : miq; this is less
trouble than the odd development of *-(k^)sk^- into -shk.
...
> The reaction of the representative of the Slavic school, V. Orel
> (AED 316-317; see also M. Kapovich and Gasiorowski in this forum)
> is: (…) HAMP KZ LXXVII 256-257 (peshk as an indigenous form!). To my
> view, all this have to do more with politics than with linguistics,
> for, according to Slavic linguists, Albanian, being non-descendent
> of Illyrian and coming later in this area, borrowed word for "fish"
> from Latin, having not even one historical evidence, and, we may
> see, having not even one argument that Alb. <peshk> could be a
> borrowed word from Latin.
For your information, Abdullah, I'm not a "Slavic linguist"; nor am I a
member of any "Slavic school". I'm a linguist whose native tongue
happens to be Slavic. I'm neither a Polish nationalist, nor an advocate
of Pan-Slavism; and feeling Slavic isn't part of my personal identity.
In particular, the fact that I speak a Slavic language doesn't make me
sympathise with the Slavic-speaking side in ethnic conflicts or
nationalist squabbles far from where I live.
If I think Alb. peshk is a loan, I do so because, to my mind, such a
hypothesis explains the form of the word better than the assumption of
an inherited word, pace Hamp (in this case). Should it prove to be
native -- fine, as far as I'm concerned, though I can't say I understand
its development, so for the time being let me exercise my right to
disagree. I don't think the 'fish' word alone can prove anything either
way about things like the Albanian homeland. The Proto-Albanians,
wherever they came from, surely knew fish; fish live in rivers and
lakes, not just in the sea. I also believe the Proto-Albanians had
friends long before their encounter with the Romans, and yet the Alb.
word for 'friend' is of Latin origin. _Why_ they should have borrowed a
Latin word for 'friend' or 'fish' or anything else is anyone's guess. At
any rate, as everybody knows, Albanian vocabulary, including its basic
sections, is full of borrowings from Latin.
Can't we just disagree without going emotional?
Piotr