On 2006-06-07 23:37, Abdullah Konushevci wrote:
> Common, be a little serious. Why *i >e is problematic and *-sk- > -
> shk-.
They are not the usual developments. I know you habitually accept
multiple outcomes of the same PIE input in Albanian, but such practice
is problematic in itself.
> Do you really think that Albanians are aware of the
> word "fish" just in contact with Italian language?
No, but people borrow words for a variety of reasons. If the
Anglo-Saxons borrowed an Old Norse word for 'leg', it doesn't mean that
they had no legs before their contacts with the Vikings (if anything,
some of them may have lost their legs in the aftermath). I'm also sure
the Albanians had known sand before their contacts with Latin-speakers,
and yet they replaced whatever term they'd used before by a loan whose
source was Lat. are:na. BTW I used Italian words for the purpose of
illustration (to show that a nearby Romance language has them), but of
course the most likely actual source of these loans is not Italian but
Balkan Latin.
> Yes, you owe me just a little explanation: how Italian /a/ yields
> Albanian /o/ in <peshkoj> `to fish' (Italian pescare) and by which
> law Italian /o/ becam Albanian /a/ in peshkatar (Italian pescatore).
> Really, I think you are too ridiculous and for me this thread is
> ended.
Let others judge who of us two is making a fool of himself. As you know
full well, Latin/Romance verb stems in -a:- routinely become Albanian
verbs in -o(n)j (as in kujtoj < co:gita:re), and the suffix is so
productive in denominative verbs (pikturoj 'paint', etc.) that it could
have been added to any base, native or borrowed, at any time. <peshkoj>
is the expected outcome of the borrowing of Vulgar Latin *pesco
(*pescare), corresponding to Class. piscor (cf. Rom. pescui, It.
pescare, Sp. pescar, Fr. pêcher). Even if the -tar suffix is native, it
was sufficiently similar to Lat. -to:r- (with the same function) to take
its place in loans. It's the ABC of loanword adaptation.
> And, what this has to do with Albanian <peshkatore> or <qumeshtore>,
> or <therrtore>?
peshkatore < *pescatoriu- < pisca:to:rium. The suffix -tore was
abstracted from such Latin loans and used also with native bases, just
as English can use the agent suffix -er (ultimately from Lat. -a:rius)
with almost any verb, or the adjectival suffix -able (of French origin)
with many "good Anglo-Saxon" verbs (readable, drinkable, thinkable).
Piotr