Re: [tied] Re: Convergence in the formation of IE subgroups

----- Original Message -----

From: mkelkar2003

To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 8:10 AM

Subject: [tied] Re: Convergence in the formation of IE subgroups

<snip>

If you are willing to massage the data to this extent, you can
probably
prove any damn thing you like.

Larry Trask
COGS
University of Sussex
Brighton BN1 9QH
UK"

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Patrick:

 

I was fortunate enough to have a long correspondence with Larry Trask.

 

It was notable in teaching me that Basque is infinitely more complicated for comparison purposes than I had ever imagined going in.

 

For whatever reasons (I have my own ideas), the ancient Basque forms have been, it is almost fair to say, horribly mutilated so that any comparison and reconstruction is highly problematical.

 

***

 

 

 

http://members.aolcom/yahyam/protoworld.html

"9. *KUAN-'dog' -- canine; cynic; hound; !Kung /gwi 'hyena'; Proto-
Afro-Asiatic *k(y)n 'dog, wolf'; Proto-Indo-European *kwon- 'dog' >
Sanskrit s'van, Phrygian kan, Latin canis, Greek kuon, Germanic hund;
Proto-Uralic *küinä 'wolf'; Old Turkish qanchiq 'bitch'; Monglian
qani 'wild dog'; Proto-Tungus-Manchu *khina 'dog'; Korean ka 'dog' (<
kani); Gilyak kan 'dog'; Chinese kou 'dog' (<Archaic Chinese khjwen);
Tibetan khyi 'dog'; Proto-Oceanic *nkaun 'dog'; Taos kwiane-, Tewa
tukhwana 'fox, coyote'"


posted by M. Kelkar

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Patrick:

 

I think that one of the most egregious errors in language reconstruction is to assume that the earliest language we are attempting to  reconstruct had _one_ word for an idea like 'dog'. This means that all vaguely similar forms in derived languages  must be manhandled with all kinds of ad hoc tricks into a single early form.

 

In the case of 'dog', I posit a PL *KHE which may possibly be seen in Tibetan khyi.

 

A PL *KHE-NA ('dog-one' = 'dog') may be behind Proto-Tungus-Manchu *khina.

 

But Gilyak kan and PIE *ka(:)n- in Latin canis, I think are likelier the result of PL KXHA-NA, 'hummer/singer'.

 

PIE *k^won- and many others seem to be the result of PL *KHE-HA-F(H)A-NA or possibly *KHE-FHA-NA, 'wagger'.

 

I have mentioned above only those words for 'dog' that, through completely coincidental phonological similarity, have been lumped (incorrectly, in my view) together.

 

 

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