Re: Permian

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Piotr Gasiorowski" <gpiotr@...>
wrote:

>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@> wrote:
>
> > 3 Scandinavian origin, cognate with Germanic *berm-, *barm-

(English

> > brim) "border, shore"
>
> The original meaning doesn't seem to have had any watery

connections.

> The Gmc. prototype is something like *barma-, *barmja- (with
> metathetic by-forms) 'margin, border, fringe, ledge'. It is not
> related to OE brim 'surf, sea', which is connected with <bremman>

and

> OHG breman 'roar, rage', cf. Lat. fremo: and perhaps Skt. bHrama-
> 'whirling flame, whirlpool' (the root is *bHrem-).

Are you positive? That means 'Bremen' makes no sense.

> > Of course when I find a word with *b/p-r- in it which means "one
> > side of waterway" (Dutch berm "shoulder of road") I can't keep

my

> > mouth shut. The interesting part in the Germanic root is the *-m-

> > suffix, which has no explanation there, which makes it tempting

to

> > assume an Uralic origin (but cf. Proto-Finno-Ugric *maGe-

"land",

> > proto-Germanic *mad- "meadow").
>

> Why not *brama- < *bHor-m(n)o-, a "Rasmussen derivative" of *bHer-

mn.

> 'burden' (cf. Gmc. *strauma- < *srou-m(n)o- from *sreu-mn.)? The
> etymology of a word meaning 'ledge' or 'brink' as 'something
> supported' makes sense to me.
>

I've never seen the Warta. It must be a wondrous sight.

> > So now we know why it's called Bremen and Birmingham. Or?
>
> Birmingham < Bermingeham < OE *Beor(n)m(und)inga ha:m, as Brian has
> already pointed out.

Personally, I never point out stuff that involves an asterix. I only
suggest it.

> The -ingham placenames in England are all based
> on personal names.
>

As opposed to the ing(en) names elsewhere?


Torsten