Re: [tied] -phóros, -phorós, -fer

On 2006-04-07 12:20, tgpedersen wrote:

>
> Yes, it should be N *´-bh&r-&s, G *-bh&r-ós, right?

-pHóros replaced *-pHorós. There are various possibilities as regards
the structure of endocentric agentive compounds. An _accented_ root noun
with the e-grade may be used there (the hysterokinetic type of Ved.
vr.tra-hán-, gen. -gHn-ás), or a "compositional root noun" in the zero
grade, which shows a *-t- extension after sonorants and laryngeals: from
*bHer- we'd get *-bHr.-t- as in Skt. dHarma-bHr.t- (in all likelihood, a
reduced form of the *-nt- participle).

The kind of thing you seem to be suggesting (an amphikinetic structure
with *'-bHor-/*-bHr-ós would be OK in an exocentric (bahuvrihi)
compound, but not here.

> Hm. I will now declare it did, by fiat. I think it should be there.
> The adjective has to come from somewhere.

Well, it can simply come from the nomen actionis *bHer- compounded with
Jens's pre/in-fix *O- and turned into an adjective by thematisation.
Let's imagine that the O-fix was originally some kind of preposition.
This would make *bHoró- an adjective derived from an erstwhile
prepositional phrase like (approximately) "in the process of carrying",
*[O + bH(e)r-]-ó-. Not much different from Gk. enupnios 'appearing in
dreams' < *[h1en + swepno-]-o-.

>> So independent words get /o/'s? Why?
>>
>
> Because it's *re-stressed*.
>
> N *´-bh&r-os -> N *bhór-os
>
> My idea is that the ablaut vowel was proto-proto-IE *a, which -> *e
> when stressed, -> *& when unstressed. So far, so standard. However,
> if stress after this stage was moved and landed on a *&, it turned
> into *o. *o's are thus the ablaut vowel (which was *a) in a re-
> stressed stage.
> For all three vowels
> PPIE *a -> PIE *e (stressed), *& (unstressed), *o (restressed)
> PPIE *i -> PIE *ey (stressed), *i (unstressed), *ey (restressed)
> PPIE *u -> PIE *ow (stressed), *u (unstressed), *ow (restressed)
>
> in some languages generalised (under Semitic 'Atlantic' influence?)
> from the *a reflexes to
>
> PPIE *a -> PIE *e (stressed), *& (unstressed), *o (restressed)
> PPIE *i -> PIE *ey (stressed), *i (unstressed), *oy (restressed)
> PPIE *u -> PIE *ew (stressed), *u (unstressed), *ow (restressed)
>
> (not Italic, it has no *ew)
>
> Voila ablaut without the 'single vowel' problem.

I'll comment on this part later -- have to run :-(


Piotr