Re: [tied] Greek labiovelars (Celtic)

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Sean Whalen <stlatos@...> wrote:

> > In Irish we then find delabialization of *kW and *gW
> > (> c and g).
> > However, one can still tell the existence of earlier
> > labialization
> > on the rounding effect of a following /a/ (> /o/)
> > and /i/ (> /u/),
> > e.g. *gWaneti > gonaid, *gWediti > *gWidhith
> > (raising) > guidid,
> > etc. And of course <Q> (= /kW/) and <NG> (= /gW/) in
> > ogam.
>
> I'm fairly certain that's /guD^iD^/ or similar, not
> /giD^iD^/ indicating e>i before Cy (from *gWHedhye-
> similar to Greek thessasthai "pray for"). There's no
> reason to assume *gWaneti with a>o not *gWeneti with
> e>o. In Welsh e>e~>a~>a before nasals explaining go-
> vs gwa- here.

I'm not really sure what you're getting at. OIr. <guidid> is
for /gudh'&dh'/ (dh = lenited d), I hope I didn't imply anything
else.

There is a sporadic change of pretonic & > a in front of nasals in
Middle Welsh, but it cannot account for consistent gwan- in Welsh
and Middle Breton goan- /gwan-/ for that matter.

There is good evidence against a development *e > o by labiovelar
rounding:

OIr. geilt 'wild' < *gWelti- (MW gwyllt)
OIr. crenaid 'buys' < *kWrenath(i) (lowering) < *kWrinati (MW pryn-)
OIr. cethair 'four' < *kWetwores (MW pedwar)
OIr. ceirt 'bush' < *kWert- (MW perth)
etc.

[Material lifted from Schrijver, "Vowel Rounding by Primitive Irish
Labiovelars", Ériu L, 133-137]

>
> > The alleged exmaples of
> > initial PCelt.
> > *g- > Brit. *gw- are simply wrong.
>
> What examples?
>

E.g. MW gwaew 'spear' < gwoew < *gaisu- (which should have given
just *goew). However, gwayw is from a prefixed form *wo-gaisu-, also
found in Old Breton <guugoiuou> /gwu-(gh)oiw-ow/ 'javelins'.

Anders