--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@...>
wrote:
>
> On 2006-01-30 14:38, Piotr Gasiorowski wrote:
>
> > Of course a loan from OC to
> > _PIE_ can be ruled out for chronological reasons (as opposed to,
say, a
> > loan from some eastern IE dialect into OC)...
>
> By the way, if Pulleyblank's reconstruction of OC *s^&'l 'west' is
> correct, the word, isolated in Sino-Tibetan, may be a loan from
> Tocharian, as already suggested by Blaz^ek. Cf. Toch. (A) s.ul,
(B)
> s.ale 'mountain' < *swelo-, hence the Tocharian terms for 'the
direction
> where the mountains are', (B) os.s.ale < *h1n.-swelo- (Adams;
lit. 'in
> the mountain'), (A) s.ulin~c (lit. 'pertaining to the mountain').
Both
> terms are interpreted as 'north' by Adams and as 'west' by Winter;
both
> possibilities make sense in the geographical context of the Tarim
Basin,
> the Kunluns and the Tian Shan.
>
Thanks. BTW, it's *s^e&´l, with aigu. I was starting to think I
should begin to look at Tokharian for traces of the entry of
loanwords from OC, especially since PIE is supposed to have
immigrated from further east than the Pontic area.
Peter Bellwood: The farming/language dispersal hypothesis
in
Laurent Sagart et al.: The peopling of East Asia
"
Attention now turns to that other millet species, the broomcorn or
common millet Panicum miliaceum. This also occurs in the earliest
sites of the Huanghe Neolithic, being present according to Yan
(1992: Table 1) in Peiligang and Dadiwan. To judge from Yan's table,
it is commonly found in the Gansu Neolithic. This could be a matter
of considerable importance, since Zachary and Hopf (2000) describe
common millet as a plant of hot dry climates with poor soils, with
wild and weedy forms reported from the region between the Aral axnd
Caspian Seas across to Xinjiang and Mongolia. Its occurrence in many
European Neolithic sites is quite early, presumably from at least
5,500 BC in terms of its presence in the Linearbandkeramik
(Danubian), Trichterbecker (Funnel Beaker), Vinca and Tripolye
cultures, also at Tepe Yahya in Iran and by a similar date in
Georgia (Wasylikowa 1991). It is reported from Neolithic Argissa in
Greece (c. 6,500 BC: Dennel 1992: 77). Exactly where common millet
was first domesticated is unclear, but there is no compelling reason
to suspect that it was in the vicinbitry of sites such as Cishan or
Peiligang. Was it introduced into Neolithic China from the steppes
of Central Asia, via Xinjiang and Gansu?
... The possibility of contacts with Central Asia involving the
movement of common millet, perhaps at the remarkably early date of
6,500 BC, must remain open. There is a possible implication of
directionality here in that the move is most likely to have been
into the middle and lower Huanghe basin from the west, perhaps via
Xinjiang and Gansu.
...
Is there a deeply-buried Tarim Basin Neolithic which dates from 6000
BC?
The most suggestive current evidence for this could be the
linguistic evidence from the Tocharian subgroup.... the initial
separation of Pre-Tocharian evidently occurred very early in
relative terms. ...
If we apply the farming/language hypothesiis to Indo-European and
associate its foundation spread with neolithic cultures from
Anatolia at about 7,000 - 6,500 BC (Renfrew 1996, 1999), then the
commencement of Pre-Tocharian dispersal eastwards towards Xinjiang
could certainly have commenced as early as 6,000 BC.
All of this may be deemed idle speculation, fuelled purely by a very
early Neolithic presence of common millet in both Europe and China.
Perhaps common millet was domesticated more than once,
independently, although in the absence of genetic evidence for such
an eventuality it is more economical to argue for a single
domestication.
"
And the more I look at *akW- "water", the less IE it looks to me.
Just a gut feeling.
Torsten