From: Patrick Ryan
Message: 42728
Date: 2006-01-02
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Wordingham" <richard@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 9:15 AM
Subject: [tied] Re: Etymology of PIE *ph2ter
--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Ryan" <proto-language@...>
wrote:
> More illogic! If /ma/ was lost, how could it be reintroduced? How
lost could
> that be?
***
Patrick:
Well, finally something interesting with a new slant or two (no pun
intended).
***
Don't forget bilingualism. In our family, the baby word for 'food' is
Chinese - my wife interpreted some of our daughter's babbling as being
this Chinese word, and wondered how she could know it.
***
Patrick:
I presume this is some variety of /tshi/?
Of course, this is the process I have been describing without much success
in convncing some people of it actuality.
Your daughter said something randomly in a situational context that
suggested to your wife a connection with 'food', and she misinterpreted the
pure coincidence.
But actually, I bet she was so delighted with a multilingual baby that she
has been reinforcing the connection of 'food' to the word by serving food,
pointing to food, etc. and repeating the word.
A harmless and cute conceit.
***
I woudn't be surprised if the Germanic p-word for 'daddy' were due to
Latin _pater_ - any disproofs? As for _daddy_ itself - might not that
derive from the /d/ of OE _fæder_ 'father'?
***
Patrick:
In some families, I would not be a bit surprised if pater were not a major
factor in the choice in the Kinderstube for an initial word selection for
'father'. In others, the informal use of pa, pop, pappa, in purely adult
situations.
I suppose it is even possible that some parents might choose to abstract and
reinforce fa or fafa for 'father'; virtually any simple sequence of CV is
possible; but some are highly more likely.
***
Tai offers a plausible example of re-introduction of /m-/ in the
'mummy' word. The Tai-Kradai languages are plausibly seen as related
to the Austronesian languages (possibly even related to the
Malayo-Polynesian languages), in which the mother words typically
starts with n-. Tai has a distinctly Chinese-like word, *mE_B (B =
tone class) 'mother', and the Tai languages have a heavy Chinese
influence, e.g. the number system. SW Tai for maternal grandmother is
*naai_A, FWIW. (Other Tai branches indicate *taai_A, possibly under
the influence of *taa_A 'maternal grandfather', which has plausible
Munda, Mon-Khmer and Austronesian cognates; Thai itself appears to
reflect **jaai_A, assumed to be contamination by (*)jaa_B 'paternal
grandmother', which goes back to Proto-Tai-Kadai *jaa_C (majority vote
on the tone!).)
Richard.
***
Patrick:
Yes, the actual diversity of words for 'father'/'mother' around the world is
fascinating. One wonders how such diversity can be reconciled with a theory
of the unitary origin of language, and must scratch one's head.
However, in PIE-descended languages, clear preferences seem to be
observable.
I believe the choice of the parents to reinforce baby's babbled 'ma' for
'mother' is a linguistically determined choice based on a special
introductory vocabulary for the Kinderstube. What I find most interesting is
that it seems, in a PIE context, that some rather persistent forms have been
maintained in that special environment that appear not to have been subject
to sound change going on outside the nursery.
The big question is: why was this selection made at its earliest instance?
If I understand some others correctly, the best they can offer is the early
appearance in babbling of /ma/ (I will continue to write phonetic
transcription in slants because brackets potentially mess up HTML). But this
cannot suffice because babbling studies have shown that babies usually start
with oral rather than nasal articulations.
That's why it's called 'babbling', stupid. Pun, pun, pun. And not *mamling.
If there were any real validity in that explanation, we would expect a
proliferation of /ba/ and /baba/ for 'mother', baby's usual object of
reference (we think) once he/she has an object of reference.
Although /ba/ can be seen occasionally connected with 'father', it is rare
for 'mother' (if at all - I know of none).
My conclusion from all this is that, at some _very_ early time, /ma/,
'breast', was a word that existed outside of the Kinderstube
('breast-men[???]; another attempt at humor). Mothers want their kids to get
with it and join the community, so a conscious selection is made to
reinforce /ma/ for either 'breast' or 'mother' as a basis for a later
elaboration into /mama/ or /ama/ or something similar.
What do you think, Richard. Does this sketch make any sense to you?
***