Re: [tied] Etymology of PIE *ph2ter

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Ryan" <proto-language@...>
wrote:

>
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Ryan" <proto-language@...>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > This root is, however, used for 'father' in, possibly, for example,
> > Egyptian
> > > j(t)f, 'father' (but possibly this corresponds rather to PIE
> > *H2ewo-s as
> > > 'progenitor'); and probably (almost certainly) in

*dMs-peH3-ti-s, 'lord

> > > (protector)'.
> >
> > Well if we're going to look at other languages families (which given
> > the nature of this list we probably shouldn't, unless we're talking
> > borrowings) then in support of my PPIE *?ap I offer Semitic *?ab which
> > also means father. PPIE may have borrowed *?ab (with word final
> > fortition) then tacked on the familial suffix **h2tir to give *pater.
>
> ***
> Patrick:
>
> PS *?ab(w) supports PIE *awo-s not *p6tér, an entirely different

word - no

> common elements at all.

Why would you like PS *?ab(w) with PIE *h2ewos?

> PIE *?ap- would show up in PS as *?af.

Not if PIE is doing the borrowing.

> No such beast as "final fortition" in this context; nob being

shamans, we

> cannot call something into existence by merely pronouncing its name.

Fortition in word final position is common.