[tied] Re: h1,h2,h3 in Albanian

> > You must have misunderstood something. The Albanian word comes

from

> > the PIE _word_ *bHr.h1g^ó-, not from "*bHérH1g^-". The regular
> > development of interconsonantal *-r.H- in Albanian is into -ar-

,

> > so the PAlb. form was *bar3-, exactly what you need to account

for

> > the shape of its Romanian relative.
> >
> > Piotr
> >
>
> apparently I stil misunderstand something. Is the "bH" not the
> notation for the aspirated "b"(bh)? If not, then maybe here is

where

> I have the first problem in understanding. If yes, then

the "bhr.h1-"

> shows some strange things in the -good said- this Rum. relative:
> -the "r." should be refletect in Rum as "râ" and not "r"
> -there is already the methathesis which appears to be later in

Alb.

> ( that is, the Rum. word should have been *brâzã" and not barzã)
> -the g^> z just when the next wowel was a palatal one.

Accepting "o"

> > "e", you got the g^e > z but this is too unknown in the other

words

> we know in Rum-Alb pairs.
>
> If all I mentioned here is not too far from the truth, then the
> word "barzã" has nothing to do with "bardhë"; the fact the

semantism

> of the both words is not the same -despite the try to explian it-
> will underline the pair barzã-bardhë is a false one.
>
>
> Alex

You cannot do 'direct links' with current Romanian or Albanian words
like r.>râ because the transformation is ancient it took place
around 3000-1500 BCE.

Mainly PAlb r.,l. gave ri~ir,li~il see krimb but also inside today
Romania: kriS 'river name in Transylvania' original meaning 'the
black river'

In some other contexts I still suspect r.,l. > ur~ru, ul~lu (see Alb
ulzë 'elm' : PIE *l.m-o + *-dyeh2 > PAlb *ulma-dya: > PAlb ulm(&)dz&

> ulzë (note also m3 > 3 here similar with n3 > 3 in mëz <-> Rom. mân

(d)z)

So my opinion is that is 'almost sure' that Alb. bardhë and Rom
bardza are cognates:

Alb. bardhë <-> Rom. bar(d)za < PAlb *bardza: (bar3a: -> using
Piotr's notation) < PIE *bHr.h1g^ó- (weak grade of bhérh1g^-o)

Note: the o-stem was reshaped to -a: in PAlb

The original meanings are: Alb. 'white' and Rom. 'the white bird'

Piotr, could you tell me based on what word you found h1, here?
(thanks, a lot)


On my side I'm still not sure that ANY PAlb *r.H gave PAlb *ar~ra

We could suspect also ur~ru for some of the rH

So is still possible that
r.h2 > ur~ru [*g'r.h2-no < grurë]
maybe also [*g'r.h2u-o < grua ]

r.h1 > ur~ru [bhr.h1u-mo- < brumë (and not bramë < *braumë]

but is true that
r.h3 > ar~ra [if the H in parë is h3 *pr.h3-wo < (i) parë]

from here my question to Piotr : from where h1 in bardza? (and not
h3?)

Marius