Re: [tied] Re: Romanian _abur_

From: Abdullah Konushevci
Message: 42420
Date: 2005-12-05

On 12/5/05, tolgs001 <st-george@...> wrote:
>Also wa regularly gave o in Romanian see Rom o < *wa < Latin una

Seemingly, this further worked with Magyar loanwords, esp. of
the var [va:r] (< PIE uer?) family -> varoS > oraS; TemeSvar,
SzegeSvar > TimiSoara, SighiSoara. (Whereby it is worth
mentioning that the Romanian [wa] pronunciation is virtually
always neglected, and in written it is never reflected;
there is only <oa>, but which in some subdialects is also
pronounced [wa]. By the way, the plural oua ("eggs") is
also pronounced ['wa-w@] - at least West of your subdialectal
region (and perhaps in your region as well).

>So Latin va > Romanian va...never a

(Nu le luati, domne, asa mecanic. Atentie la fenomenele de
alofonie.)

>I showed you an impossible Albanian "ll"-othacism: r -> ll in
>Albanian...if you would start from Latin vapor to explain
>Romanian abur....

It's only a hypothesis, and one rickety at that, this
<avull> nexus. Nobody has so far been able to explain
the relationship between that part of Romanian vocabulary
that has lexical counterparts in Albanian in a conclusive
way. One has to be highly cautious as well as to give
up any hope in various situations. Albanian is no ancestor
for the Romanian language.

>Due to such impossible Albanian evolution of avull: there is no
>need to compare b/v with Italian in this case....

Of course there is. (O dendindza nadurala za bronundzi
gonzoanele zonorizandu-le be mazura ge de deblazezi be
agza Nord-Zud. :-) And another, general, one to make a Latin
o to become an u in all Romanian subdialects, even in the
ancient Romanian ethnonym: Ruman, Tzara Rumaneasca.
What's
more: the Hungarian subdialects spoken among Romanians
also have this tendence o > u, e.g. standard Hung. lo
[lo:] "horse" > Transylvanian Hung. lu [lu:]. Also many
cases where short and long o-Umlaut > short and long
u-Umlaut. Perhaps a mere coincidence. And it is there
even if one compares old Hungarian things with modern
renderings, e.g. the name of a chieftain of the 9th
century, Tuhutum, in the chronicles, which is rendered
in modern Hung. as To:ho:to:m. Even stranger if this
name is to be seen as being of the Turkic kind with
the suffix -tum, cf. the Uzbek general Dostum in Af-
ghanistan. After all, these o-u and o:-u: vowels are
almost interchangeable in most languages; cf. U:zbek and
O:zbek.) [read o: and u: as o-Umlaut and u-Umlaut]

>Marius

George
 
************
It's Turkic characteristic to change /u/ > /o/: Arabic <burani> 'some kind of meat' > Turk. <borani>, Persian <bustan> 'garden' > Turkish <bostan>,  Persian <buza> 'some kinde of drink' > Turk. <boza>, Per. <shurba> 'soup' > Turk. <çorba>,  Persian <dust> 'friend' (like in Dust-e man 'My friend') > Turkish <dost>,  etc., etc.
So, primary forms are always with <u>, until in Romanian and Albanian exists tendency to change /o/ to /u/ where first vocal is followed by nasals /m/, /n/, /gn/ and has nothing to do with any kind of Umlaut.
 
Konushevci
 

 
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