Re: [tied] IIr 2nd Palatalisation (was: PIE voiceless aspirates)

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Ryan" <proto-language@...>
wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Miguel Carrasquer" <mcv@...>
> > On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 01:57:21 -0600, Patrick Ryan
> > <proto-language@...> wrote:

> > >Patrick:
> > >
> > >I am still unable to find these forms in Pokorny. Could you

please supply

> > >the PIE forms?
> >
> > cé:s.t.ati, cyávate:, *ke:i- p. 539
> > ca:s.a, 4. *kel- p. 547
> > cr.táti, *kert p. 584
> > có:pati, *kew@... p. 596

> First, there is nothing but imaginative thinking to connect ca:Sa

to

> *kel-(so-). It is of questionable value to prove anything. In

addition,

> every one of the other nine Old Indian derivations of this *kel-

have <k>

> (<kalká>). Nine *o- or zero-grades?

Look to Iranian for the e-grades:

"npers. c^arma `Schimmel', kurd. c^erme `weis|' (: schweiz. helm)"

> PIE roots are *CVC. Thus the root for cRtáti is *ker-; this is

acknowledged

> (almost) by Pokorny when he refers to 3. *(s)ker- under the *kert-

listing.

> In view of an attested kRNátti under this root, I suggest a

prototype for

> cRtáti would probably be better reconstructed as *skRtéti.

Except that unsoftened PIE *sk gives Sanskrit /sk/ (or /k/) e.g. the
derivatives of PE *ska(m)bH (e.g. skabhna:ti, skabhno:ti 'support')
and softened *sk gives Sanskrit /ch/ e.g. _chyati_ 'cut' from
Pokorny's *ske:i.

> I do not think cópati can be very probative in view of kúpyati and

kopáyati

> from this root. Perhaps we are dealing with *skéupeti.

The combination of cópati, kúpyati and kopáyati looks like a lovely
example of the e-grade, zero grade and o-grade of **keup. It's
partly spoilt by the apparent parallel existence of **kap.

How does the Sanskrit _kap_ root arise from PIE *kew&p? Wouldn't
*kwep have yielded **kvap?

Richard.