[tied] Re: Proto Vedic Continuity Theory of Bharatiya (Indian) Lang

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "mkelkar2003" <smykelkar@...> wrote:

>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh <gknysh@...> wrote:
> It seems irrational to impose of our theories on people who lived
> thousands of years ago without regards what those people have to say
> about themselves.

The problem is that people's beliefs about their origins are
unreliable, as in the following example:

> The
> > Scythian Foundation Legend in Herodotus likewise
> > presents the Scythians as autochtons (some 200 years
> > only after their arrival!), but we know this is not
> > true.*****

> > > > > > > > GK: So "genetic evidence" as you
> > > understand
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > contradicts the verifiable "flow of
> > > humans"
> > > > > from
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > north into the Indian subcontinent in
> > > > > historical
> > > > > > > > times?...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That it DEFINITELY does.
> >
> > ****GK: Since you claim that there is no genetic
> > evidence of the Saka, Kushan, and Turco-Mongol
> > invasions et sim., all of which clearly occurred, you
> > cannot argue that the lack of genetic evidence for an
> > Indo-Aryan invasion "proves" that such an invasion did
> > not occur. This is elementary logic.*****
>
> I missed the last part of your sentence "historical times." You
> were trying to trick me it seems. I am not aware of any studies that
> have tried to track down genetic evidence of these because THERE IS
> SIMPLY NO NEED FOR IT.

Yes, there is. You argue that the lack of genetic evidence of
immigration implies that there was no such immigration. But this is
only valid if such an immigration would have left evidence. So, if
these invasions left evidence, then there does not seem to have been a
significant immigration of alien IE speakers. If they did not leave
discernible evidence, then the lack of evidence of a significant
immigration of alien IE speakers is not evidence that it did not occur.

On the other hand, there does seem to be evidence of genetic spread of
Y chromosomes from the NW of India. This may be evidence of the
spread of self-styled 'Aryans' - but I do not think it shows that they
originated from outside India.

I don't believe George Knysh tried to trick you - it came across as a
genuine question along the line of reasoning I presented above. Note
the use of the word 'verifiable'!

Richard.

> But here is the point. IEL migrations are
> only acceptable if corroborated by other outside evdience.

Someone has to have spread the language around. The nearest I can
think of to a language spreading but no-one moving is the spread of
religious languages - but priests (or whatever) have usually moved in
these cases as well, albeit it in tiny numbers.

Richard.