Re: [tied] Re: Indo-Iranian *H2rtá- (was Sanskrit Rta)

From: Abdullah Konushevci
Message: 41848
Date: 2005-11-07

Maybe Albanian counterpart <i çart> 'destroyed, broken', derived from prefixed form *tsh- (privative prefix like Lat. dis-) + H2er-to could put more light on the meaning of PIE *arH1- 'to fit, put in order', oldest form *H2erH1-. Other derivative <flet përçart/jerm> 'to speak in disorder'  preserves the meaning 'order', but in some contexts it has also the meaning 'crazy, insane' like in NP <qen i çart-un/-ur> 'crazy dog'.
 
Konushevci

 
On 11/7/05, david_russell_watson <liberty@...> wrote:
--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "A." <xthanex@...> wrote:
>
> David,
>
> Would this then mean that the PII *H2rtá- is only known to
> have carried such meanings as those which convey the sense
> of "Cosmic Order" or some such? That PII *H2rtá- does not
> have any derivatives which carry mundane meanings?

I don't know, but it seems as if the Oss. 'ard' could
possibly have come by its meaning "oath" directly from
"fit, put together" rather than by way of "cosmic order". 
At least _I_ don't quite understand how "oath" could
come out of "cosmic order".  

> If so then I would only find "mundane" terms deriving from
> the PIE antecedent *H2rtó- ?

Again I don't know. I'm afraid that my willingness to
try to answer you is in inverse proportion to my actual
knowledge.  ;^) 

> Aside from trying to lay to rest this religious obsession of
> mine, I am curious because I was thinking of the Greek Goddess
> Arete (Goddess of virtue, morality, excellence) and how similar
> the name seems to Arta.

Well beyond the fact that 'arete' is based on the same
_root_ as 'rta-', I don't know its exact etymology, and
so whether it involves the same suffix as 'rta-' or not.
It does seem to me that it might, but hopefully somebody
on the list better informed about Greek can tell us for
sure. 

> I may be way off base but IF Arete were a cognate of Rta I would
> think this would be unexpected; because it would imply that the
> PIE *H2rtó- was already carrying some sense of "Divine Moral
> Standard" (or some such concotion) *prior* to the split of the
> European and Indo-Iranian branches.

Yes, it might very well. Although I think some sense of
fittingness, appropriatness, excellence, and/or decorum
is attached to the root *H2er- itself, and thus to its
other derivatives besides 'rta-', and is what is behind
the name of the goddess. For me, that doesn't amount to
cosmological significance, but it may well be what you're
looking for. 

David  







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