Re: [tied] Re: PIE voiceless aspirates

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 21:16:06 +0000, david_russell_watson
<liberty@...> wrote:

>--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Ryan" <proto-language@...>
>wrote:

>> Are you really sure. German Karpfen is /karp-fN/, is it not?
>> And is <pf> not an affricate?
>> And where did you get the definition of 'affricate' above?
>
>Well here is where some confusion surely came in, and on second
>thought there may well be some precedent of some sort of which
>I'm unaware for referring to "affricate sequences". However my
>point was not really that /tš/ in "treat shopper" can't be an
>affricate, but that it can't be a unit phoneme, having as it does
>a syllable boundary between its elements.
>
>As far as 'Karpfen' goes, I'm not entirely sure. I read at one
>point long ago that it was an affricate, and so ever after on
>the rare occasions that I have spoken German have divided such
>words as [kar.pfN]. If it truly is divided as [karp.fN]

It isn't. /pf/ is a labial affricate, and the syllable
division is /kar.pfM/. Perhaps German hyphenation rules
require the word to be split as karp-fen (I wouldn't know),
but that has nothing to do with syllabification.


=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
mcv@...