[tied] Re: Proto Vedic Continuity Theory of Bharatiya (Indian) Lang

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Ryan" <proto-language@...>
wrote:

>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "mkelkar2003" <smykelkar@...>
> To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 10:26 AM
> Subject: [tied] Re: Proto Vedic Continuity Theory of Bharatiya (Indian)
> Langauges
>
>
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel J. Milton" <dmilt1896@...>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "mkelkar2003" <smykelkar@...>

wrote:

> > >
> > > > All the Rig Vedic flora and fauna are indigenous to the Indian
> > > > subcontinent (Lal 2005).
> > > > M. kelkar
> > > >
> > > If you can state that so confidently, then you must have the
> > > answer to a much-debated question.
> > > What was soma?
> > > Dan Milton
> >
> > Soma does not refer to a particular variety of plant. It means nectar
> > or essence or the gist to be offered to the Gods. That Soma is a
> > particular plant with hallucinogenic property is a dubious assumption.
> >
> > M. kelkar
>
> ***
> Patrick:
>
> Frankly, I find the last remark absolutely incredible.

> Whatever it was, só:ma was certainly something quite specific.

No it was not. Soma also refers to moon and water. The suppossed
intoxicating properties are based on a misreading of the Rig Veda.

<http://users.primushost.com/~india/ejvs/ejvs0901/ejvs0901b.txt>

<http://www1.shore.net/~india/ejvs/ejvs0901/ejvs0901e.txt>

Quotes from the second link:

"Falk's view that "there is
nothing shamanistic or visionary either in early Vedic or in Old Iranian
texts" [Falk, 1989, p.79]."

"The first point is his (Falk's) insistence, rather
surprising to me, that there is no evidence of shamanic or visionary
experience in Vedic, and no evidence whatsoever also that the Soma-drink
was hallucinogenic, itself also surprising [not that I claim that Soma
*was* hallucinogenic; rather, I reject the suggestion that it could not
have been so] (Thompson, 2003)."

>
> Whether it was from a 'magic mushroom' or 'fermented juice' of some

fruit

> (wild pears are a good possibility).
>
> If we look at Bharati culture, the only drug that seems to be in

general

> disfavor is alcohol. And, of course, só:ma is no longer in evidence

either.

>
> I suspect the Indo-Aryan speakers were users of alcohol; and the

population

> they came into were, like Native Americans, were genetically

incapable of

> handling it.

Such philology based claims are not verifiable. Anything can be read
into a text if one reads it with preconcieved ideas.

M. Kelkar

>
> Temperance among this population would have had great chances of

succeeding.

>
> ***
>