Re: [tied] Two Germanic questions

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@...>
wrote:

>
>
> If the most common reading of the Negau inscription is roughly
> correct, the <teiwa> part can be identified with PGmc. *teiwaz
> (later *ti:waz), (((snip))) but not with *tewaz.
>

Thank you for clarifying that Piotr. From a religious standpoint I
was hoping for a longshot chance that *Tiwaz (aka Tiw/Tyr) might have
some lingering connection with the term for "order" (*tewaz) and thus
serve as evidence to reinforce the notion that Tiw/Tyr was the
original sky god.
Oh well, seems that hope did not pan out. I am grateful for your
having prevented me from supporting an unjustified association.

>
> What's infamous about <irmin->? We find a few variants of
> this element, reflecting *ermana-, *ermuna- or *irmina-.
> They all go back to PGmc. *ermVna- with wariable vocalism
> of the unstressed syllable ("suffix umlaut") and
> vowel-harmony adjustments. The initial vowel is not
> compatible with either *h2a- or *h2o-, so there can hardly
> be a formal connection with the 'arm, shoulder' term.
>
> The unmotivated variation of *i/*a/*u is common in
> unstressed syllables in early Germanic. Note such cases
> as Goth. asilus, OHG esil 'ass' (a borrowed word) vs.
> OE esol, Anglian eosol. The back umlaut in OE dialects
> points to a back vowel in the suffix, whereas the initial
> e- is the product of previous i-umlaut (as in OHG)! So
> the historical sequence must have been like this:
>
> *asil- > *esil > *esul > e(o)sol
>
> Piotr

I was thinking "infamous" in regards to how much speculation has been
made regarding Irmin and the Irminsul, possible relationships to
Aryaman and all those various threads which seem to be rather dead
horses.

PIE *h2orHmos > Proto-Germanic: *armaz >> Gothic: arms, OE:
earm, Old Frisian: erm, Old Prussian: irmo .
It was the O.Prussian that made me ponder a possible link between
*armaz and Irmin (of the Irminsul).

In your debt,
Aydan