Anatolian [was: PIE Ablaut [was] Re: Gypsies again]

Patrick Ryan wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Miguel Carrasquer" <mcv@...>
> To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 1:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [tied] Re: PIE Ablaut [was] Re: Gypsies again
>
>
>> On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 11:59:25 -0500, Patrick Ryan
>> <proto-language@...> wrote:
>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> Patrick:
>>>
>>> I should have stated more precisely that there are _no_ traces of
>>> the _vocalic_ expressions of this Ablaut-phoneme in Anatolian or
>>> Indian. No one
>>> can doubt a *V/*Ø variation based on the stress-accent occurs in
>>> Anatolian
>>> and Indian.
>>
>> And no one can doubt there is e/a variation in Anatolian.
>> I see no reason to treat Hittite any differently here than
>> all the other languages which have merged /o/ and /a/
>> (Germanic, Baltic, Slavic, Albanian). Furthermore, /o/ and
>> /a/ had not merged in Proto-Anatolian: Lycian has */o/ > /e/
>> and */a/ > /a/.
>
> ***
> Patrick:
>
> I guess you may call me Noone. Am I correct assuming that the basis
> for your claim that PIE /*o/ and /*a/ had not merged in
> Proto-Anatolian is based on the alleged Lycian equivalence /*o/ > /e/?
>
> In view of PIE /*e/ > Lycian /e/, it looks to me as if the
> Proto-Anatolian from which Lycian developed did not maintain or
> perhaps ever have the PIE /*e/~/*o/ Ablaut variation. Perhaps you can
> convince me with something other than dubious particles and
> inflections?

Some Anatolian languages preserved the distinction PIE *k^ : *k, and some
had not. Some Anatolian languages preserved *a : *o, and some did not. Maybe
we should ponder on whether the Anatolian group (or: subfamily) existed at
all? As far as I know, most Anatolian languages are known rather
fragmentarily. Can we really reconstruct, say, Lycian or Luwian inflexion so
much satisfactorily to maintain the hypothesis that Proto-Anatolian ever
existed?

One of the most popular views is that the Proto-Anatolian language community
separated from the rest and migrated into Anatolia while the remaining IE
dialects still evolued together. If yes, why particular Anatolian languages
(including those newer ones) have common features with, e.g., Greek (a : o)
and Armenian (k^ : k) while the others have not? Perhaps "the Anatolian
group" was rather a language league than a group of genetically related
languages. If we took such an assumption, particular Anatolian languages
might appear (genetically) closer to particular IE groups that to one
another, and their common features (hey! how many of them were there?) might
be a result of secondary influences.

Grzegorz J.



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