Re: [tied] Re: Names of a few Celtic Deities

----- Original Message -----
From: "glen gordon" <glengordon01@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Names of a few Celtic Deities


> Patrick on hyperetymologizing Neto: from Neith:
> > If you disbelieve in Nostratic: no. If you believe
> > in Nostratic: yes.
>
> Nostratic isn't a 'belief'. It's a conclusion one may
> have, a theory, an as-yet vague explanation of some
> long-range linguistic relationships. Using Nostratic
> as a security blanket to justify falsifiable
> etymologies is not fairplay. As much as Nostratic
> needs a lot of work, many Nostraticists wouldn't
> touch your Proto-World theories with a ten-foot pole.
>
> So this has nothing to do with Nostratic at all.

***
Patrick:

My statement about Nostratic was simply meant to convey that those who
believe that PIE and Egyptian are ultimately related will be inclined to
look more closely at a "coincidence" of n-y-t associated with a divinity of
war in both cultures. Those who cannot accept such a relationship, will
probably reject the comparison out of hand unless they can respectably slip
by with some nonsense about a loan-deity.

Glen thinks that he can irritate me by incorrigibly calling my reconstructed
language Proto-World (a term used by Merritt Ruhlen [and the late and
lamented Joseph Greenberg] and his school) instead of _Proto-Language_,
which he knows full well is the name I use for it. His dogged persistence in
mislabeling it only amuses me.

***

>
> > The sun-god and justice are always associated in
> > ancient mythology.
>
> No, in Greek mythology, that was clearly Zeus' job
> because Apollo, god of sun and beauty, was too busy
> making goo-goo eyes at himself in a mirror :)

***
Patrick:

Firstly, in the earliest culture for which we have written records, Utu, the
sun-god, is firmly in charge of justice.

The Areopagus, the hill of justice in Athens, was probably named for Areía,
a name of Athena, who was almost certainly a sun-goddess on loan.

As many would know and agree, Zeus is a composite deity. He has absorbed the
attributes and characteristics of many unrelated divinities. His preferred
method of attack is the thunderbolt, indubitably a weapon of the
weather-god. The weather-god in cultures around the world was associated
with the planet Jupiter because it transverses each of the twelve zodiacal
signs in roughly one year. The sun-god in Greece was Helios originally.

Apollo was not originally a Greek god; and his name cannot be understood
from Greek roots.

I wrote a short piece on his origins some years ago that some might be
interested to read:

http://geocities.com/proto-language/proto-religion/apollo.htm

A very common phenomenon in religion is that when a particular god or
goddess becomes influential, it begins to greedily absorb characteristics of
other gods/godesses for its greater glory. This makes for a rather confused
picture but the names of the divinities, if original, can often help us see
through the thicket.

***

> However, I do think that in Etruscan mythology, Tin
> is really the sun god and is falsely labeled the
> "sky god" because of misguided comparisons with IE
> *dei- and *deiwo- instead of looking into the language
> itself _first_ to see the likelier value of the name.
>
> Now, if /tin/ really means "sun", not "sky", (along
> with being clearly "day" in some instances), and
> added to this his association with Roman Jupiter,
> one might have an example of a sun god associated
> with justice outside of Egyptian religion. This makes
> sense if you already suspect that Tyrrhenian beliefs
> were heavily entwined with those of Egypt.
>
> = gLeN

***
Patrick:

I am not aware of sufficient information to enable us to make even an
educated guess at what Tin's function may have been.

***