Re: [tied] Re: ka and k^a

----- Original Message -----
From: "Miguel Carrasquer" <mcv@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] Re: ka and k^a


> On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 20:22:42 -0500, Patrick Ryan
> <proto-language@...> wrote:
>
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Miguel Carrasquer" <mcv@...>
> >> >> I reconstruct a 2x3 vowel system for pre-PIE. Under the
> >> >> stress, the normal developments were:
> >> >>
> >> >> *a > *e
> >> >> *i > *e
> >> >> *u > *e
> >> >>
> >> >> *a: > *o:
> >> >> *i: > *e:
> >> >> *u: > *o:
> >
> ><snip>
> >
> >***
> >Patrick:
> >
> >Let us say someone like myself prefers a pre-PIE vowel inventory of *e,
> >*a,
> >*o.
> >
> >What do you believe the practical consequences would be?
>
> *e and *o are not as likely to cause palatalization and
> labialization as *i and *u.
>
>
> >Is not the height of pre-PIE *F (front vowel) and *B (back vowel)
> >somewhat
> >irrelevant?
>
> If it is, there's no point in reconstructing anything but
> the standard 3-vowel system /a/, /i/, /u/.
>
> =======================
> Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
> mcv@...


***
Patrick:

I would sincerely like to thank everyone who contributed their opinions to
the discussion of this and related questions.

I have included the following statement at my website:

N.B. Although I have stated in many essays at this website that the
Proto-Language vowels written with E, A, and O, indicate front, central,
and back vowels, irrespective of their height (openness), I have, up until
now, been inclined to regard them as having been realized phonetically with
[e], [a], and [o], patterning like the two major expressions of the Ablaut
phoneme in PIE, which has the forms /*e/, /*o/ and /*Ø/, depending on the
placement of the tonal and stress-accents. I have now abandoned that idea
for several reasons:

1. typologically, triangular vowel systems of /e, a, o/ are vastly less
frequent than those of /i, a, u/;

2. in two language families which I believe to be derived from the
Proto-Language, Sumerian and Proto-Semitic, the vowel systems are basically
i/a/u and /*i, *a, *u/;

3. in the Pontic stage of PIE, during which the front and back vowels
acquired palatal and velar glides while the vowel quality was neutralized
and centralized to *[a], it is phonologically likelier that PIE developed
glides from *i (Pontic *Ya) and *u (Pontic *Wa) than from *e and *o;

a. this, of course, produced the Ablaut phoneme, which I write as *A (*YA,
*A, and *WA), which later, through tonal and stress-accent, and after loss
of glides but with palatalization of dorsals and velarization of coronals,
manifested itself as PIE *e, *o, and *Ø;

4. therefore, although the notation of the Proto-Language vowels will not be
changed, it should be understood that E and O probably stand for what was
phonetically realized as *[i] and *[u].