Re: [tied] russian vor [was: IE thematic presents and the origin of

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Peter P" <roskis@...> wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@...>

wrote:

> > Grzegorz Jagodzinski wrote:
> >
> > >>>... I
> > >>>vaguely remember that the word is an early Finnic
> > >>>loan in Russian, cf.
> > >>>Finnish varas.
> > >
> > >
> > > Vasmer denies it.
> >
> > Yes, but why? Because of the Germanic connections of

varas/varkaan? How

> > does that affect the possibility that the Finnic nom.sg. varas

was

> > borrowed as *vorU into early Russian?
> >
> > > Vasmer believes this word to be related with Greek rhe:tor and
> esp. eiro:n <
> > > *erio:n "a man who says different things than he thinks",

"liar".

> Trubachev
> > > comments that this word is only Great Russian and it can be
> related with
> > > vre^ti 'to boil' or with za-veret' 'to close' (ibidem).
> >
> > Again, the limited geographical distribution of the word makes me
> prefer
> > the Finnic loan hypothesis to any of those fanciful PIE

etymologies,

> > which, needless to say, can't all be true.
> >
> > Piotr
>
> Finnish also has 'voro' thief, but it's borrowed from Russian

(Suomen

> Sanojen Alkuper�). I don't know how it entered Russian. Back

and

> forth borrowings are possible, I guess.
>
> Peter P

*********
Russian 'vor' "thief" calls to my untutored mind the Greek 'phor'
"thief" (and the Latin derivative or cognate 'fur'). Sound rules
don't allow common derivation from I.-E., but is borrowing out of the
question? I'm not suggesting that Slavs were more likely to have
their belongings lifted by Greeks than by Finns, but a southern source
does seem as plausible as a northern.
Dan Milton