Re: [tied] Re: ka and k^a

----- Original Message -----
From: "Grzegorz Jagodzinski" <grzegorj2000@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] Re: ka and k^a



<snip>

> The problem is whether IE phoneme /a/ existed or not. I do not agree that
> it
> _had to_ exist. So, there's no contradiction here because:
> 1) there _are_ systems without any (short) low vowels
> 2) the existence of /a/ in the PIE vowel system is unnecessary even if low
> vowels are present in each existing vowel system (because /e/ and/or /o/
> may
> have been as low as /æ/ and /A./ in British English

***
Patrick:

No matter how often I write this, it seems that someone does not get it.

What is being asserted with the reconstruction of pre-PIE *e, *a, and *o is
that there existed a front phoneme /E/, a central phoneme /A/, and a back
phoneme /O/.

The height at which they were realized is secondary. This is also true of
PIE.

This threefold division of vowels is the basis for the commonest vowel
schemes in the world's languages (Anttila); and I wonder if anyone will be
bold enough to challenge his assertion.

Typologically, this is what we should expect for PIE also; and, in fact,
that is what has been traditionally reconstructed: *e, *a, and *o.

With the introduction of the idea of coloring laryngeals, this typological
fact has been neglected.

The idea that laryngeals 'color' vowels to *e and to *o is, by itself,
totally ridiculous.

We do find, in the world's languages, consonantal phonemes like Arabic /H/
which LOWER vowels but none which FRONT them. We find velo-dorsals like /kW/
which ROUND vowels but none which BACK them.

The basic question of the laryngeals in PIE is what was their phonetic
shape. I am of the opinion that there were only two: <?> and <h>, both of
which had no 'coloring' effect on vowels but both of which could lengthen
vowels.

When all short vowels became the PIE Ablaut vowel, *A (*e/*o/*Ø), vowels
made long by laryngeals (and other phonological processes, like compensation
for lost vowels or consonants), were retained with their existing
vowel-qualities.

Therefore, all PIE *a must derive from *a:.

For all all these reasons, the remarks above about "low" vowels are
meaningless in this question.

***