Re: [tied] *kW- "?"

----- Original Message -----
From: "glen gordon" <glengordon01@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] *kW- "?"


>
> Peter:
> > Perhaps the stubborn tradition persists because some
> > of us are unconvinced.
>
> Bring it on! :)
>
>
> > Since the reflexes of traditional *k^ are palatals,
> > there must have been palatalisation at some stage.
>
> Yes, only within the _post-IE_ satem dialect area.
> Outside the area, plain *k (trad. *k^) remained as it
> was. If you think of the satem group as an emerging
> wave within the larger spread of IE, then it all makes
> clear sense.
>
> Inside that area when it was still young and small,
> which included the budding dialects of IndoIranian,
> Armenian and Albanian, *k was fronted straight to
> *c^. Then, as the satem area expanded new
> emerging waves within "satem" did their own things.
> As we know, IndoIranian for example further
> delabialized *kW to plain *k and also fronted uvular
> *q to plain *k but Armenian did something slightly
> different if I understood correctly, but all share
> the initial change of *k > *c^.
>
> This 'unmotivated' palatalization of /k/ shouldn't be
> shocking. Some dialects of English do this whereby
> "car" is pronounced with palatalization of "c"
> before "a". Notice also the variation of the word
> "Tuesday" or "tune". Historically we know that it
> is /t-/, not /tj-/. Spontaneous palatalization
> strikes again, bwahahaha!

<snip>

***
Patrick:

Nothing but nothing is unmotivated in language development or in any other
historical process.

It is supremely important to retain the palatalized dorsals where we can
identify them because they allow us to know that the pre-PIE vowel in that
position was /e/.

It is unreasonable to object to palatals because of their frequency - as if
they are disqualified for existence by their volume. Code breakers know
that the most frequent vowel in English is _e_. What is obviously not
impossible for Modern English was also not impossible for PIE.

'Markedness' is a useless concept. If it had any legitimacy, Khoisan could
not exist with its very "marked" clicks.

***