Re: [tied] Re: Short and long vowels

----- Original Message -----
From: "elmeras2000" <jer@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:33 PM
Subject: [tied] Re: Short and long vowels


--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Ryan" <proto-
language@...> wrote:
>
> Certainly, I would be glad to do that.
>
> I will not offer pre-Nostratic reconstructions to put the worm in
the apple.
>
> 1) PIE *gWem-, 'go'; Egyptian sm, 'go';
>
> 2) PIE gWi:-nó-, 'fur'; Egyptian sn.w,'hair';
>
> 3) PIE *gWei-, 'cry'; Sumerian se-x (IG~I-A), 'cry';
>
> 4) PIE *gWei-, 'live'; Sumerian si-i, 'live';
>
> 5) PIE *gWel-, 'pour out'; Egyptian in Xnm.t, 'well'; Sumerian
hal, 'pour
> out'
>
> 6) PIE *gWer-, 'swallow'; in Egyptian s3b.w, 'meals, food';
Sumerian har,
> 'chew'
>
> 7) PIE *gWer-, 'heavy'; Egyptian s3.w, 'weight';
>
> 8) PIE *kWel-, 'move around'; Egyptian snj, 'encircle';
>
> 9) PIE *kWer-, 'formulate, put into effect'; Egyptian s3, 'ordain,
order';
> ser-3, 'decide'
>
> 10) PIE *kWe-, interrogative; Egyptian in j-s-z.t, 'what?'
(literally,
> ?-what-it); Sumerian ha, 'quantity';

Now, that's more like it. This is the kind of stuff that makes for
potential progress. You have 4 examples of IE *gW corresponding to
Egypt. s, and one where the same phoneme is Egypt. H. That prompts
the first question: what's the value of item 5? You further have 3
cases of IE *kW corresponding to Egypt. s. You have 2 examples of IE
*gW corresponding to Sumerian s, and 2 where *gW corresponds to Sum.
h. Of these, one has Egypt. H, one s. You finally have one example
each of IE *kW corresponding to Sum. s and h. That emphasizes the
desperate need for some conditioning or perhaps delousing. The IE
side of items 2 and 3 is very weak, so are the other sides of 10.
But this post does contain something that deserves to be discussed
by those who understand it. I can only wish you luck on Nostratic-L.

Jens


***
Patrick:

The explanation is so simple I will quickly outline it.

Egyptian s and X (bar-h) [sorry, I wrote H above) are the dual inheritors of
Nostratic /G/ and /x/' they are conditioned by the quality of the Nostratic
vowel not voicing or aspiration. s goes with /a/ and /e/; X goes with /o/.

Something similar in Sumerian; no voice or aspiration contrast was
amintained; s goes with Nostratic /e/; h goes with /a/ or /o/.

The discrepancy you might note is Sumerian hal instead of *hul; Xnm.t was
snm.t in earliest Egyptian. /xal/

This pattern of conflation of aspirated and non-aspirated varieties of all
phones is carried through the phonological system in Egyptian. In Sumerian,
the non-aspirated unaffricated phone is transcribed as voiced while all
other members of the articulatory family are transcribed as voiceless: *b =
b; bh, p, and ph = p.

I believe s in both languages was /ç/; X and h were /x/.