Re: [tied] Re: Short and long vowels

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Wordingham" <richard.wordingham@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 2:32 PM
Subject: [tied] Re: Short and long vowels


> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Ryan" <proto-language@...>
> wrote:
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Brian M. Scott" <BMScott@...>
>
> > > Then there's this, from
> > > <http://geocities.com/Proto-language/ProtoLanguage-5.htm>.
> > >
> > > A strong confirmation of the original three-vowel contrast
> > > (really glide contrast) of the Proto-Language is found in
> > > the facts of Old Irish. ... When we see this pervasive
> > > system in an IE language that has perpetuated an ancient
> > > situation, it is difficult to believe that it was not a
> > > feature of, at least, earliest IE, and, most probably
> > > Nostratic, from which IE and Afrasian among others are
> > > descended.
>
> > You rather conveniently neglected to mention the quote from
> Thurneysen, a
> > recognized expert on these matters. Since you did not see fit to
> mention it,
> > and seem to be attempting to deny it, I will quote it in full:
> >
> > "In Old Irish every consonant may have three separate qualities:
> >
> > 1. palatal or i-quality,
> >
> > 2. neutral or a-quality,
> >
> > 3. u-quality.
> <Snip>
> > Now perhaps you are more knowledgeable than Thurneysen; is that what
> you are
> > claiming?
>
> I am very sure that Brian is objecting to the word 'perpetuate', which
> implies that Old Irish has *retained* an ancient system, whereas it is
> far more plausible that it has *returned to* an ancient system, much
> as Jens makes the point that Sanskrit has returned to the one-vowel
> system of pre-ablaut PIE.
>
> Richard.

***
Patrick:

Well, Celtic is on the outermost fringes of the PIE expansion area; those
are usually the most conservative enclaves.

And why would they re-invent it if they had once lost it?

On the other hand, this was simply a typological example as far as I was
concerned, They do not have to have maintained it for the point I was
attempting to make.