Re: [tied] Re: Short and long vowels

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Brophey" <TBrophey@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 9:16 PM
Subject: [tied] Re: Short and long vowels


> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Ryan" <proto-language@...>
> wrote:
> > Here, I can furnish the examples.
> >
> > It is probably easiest to see with PIE initial *a-.
> >
> > Earliest PIE had a morpheme *ha (from Nostratic /Ha/
> not /ha/), 'water',
> > that had combined with other morphemes to form roots in PIE.
>
> OK, if I understand correctly, your examples generalize as:
> After an (initial?) *H, *a is not lenthened, but neither is it
> converted to *A; it just remains *Ha.
>
> Is *H2awi, 'bird' also a water word? (I hope you don't say it was in
> your list, and I missed it.)
>
> And how does *H2owis, 'sheep' arise?

***
Patrick:

In the case of initial /*ha/ and /*?a/ (as in *a(:)m(m)a, *a(:)p(p)a,
*a(:)t(t)a), since one seems never to see *A, I presume it was lengthened
subsequent to the breakaway of Hittite.

Neither of these are 'coloring', since initial *?e, e.g., in *?e(:)d-,
'eat', behaves exactly the same; similarly *?o in *o(:)us-, 'mouth'.

As for *H2ewi-, here we start with *?a, (plant-)top, + *wa, 'set', producing
*?á(:)w-, 'tops (of plants/trees), + *ye-, '-like; *á(:)wi-, 'what is
associated with tree-tops'; this can probably be found in Egyptian also but
the argument would be too involved; in Sumerian, it is u-11, a reading of a
sign that pictures a bird. Although u-11 is not recorded as reading 'bird',
u-3(-e-4), u-5, and u-8(-e-4) are. Even the final element (-*ye) can be seen
in combinations like u-8-e-4, 'bird'. Therefore, I reject any connection
with *o:u-, 'egg'. So, the reconstruction would be *?a(:)wi-. Normally, the
initial vowel wouldnot be lost but for reasons known only to themselves, the
Old Indians eliminated the initial element but had the good graces to
lengthen the vowel by way of compensation: ví-H, 'bird'.

With *H2owi-s, I do not think it should be reconstructed with a 'laryngeal'.
I believe it is best analyzed as a reduplicated *wo, 'curl': *wówo- becomes
*wéu-, 'all curls' + "*ye-, '-like' = *wowéi-, 'all curly'; at this point,
the avoidance of the same phone in subsequent syllables rule came into
effect, and the the initial *w as metathesized: *ówwi- became *ówi-
(*ma:-ma: becomes *á:mma:).