Re: [tied] Re: Short and long vowels

----- Original Message -----

From: tombrophey

To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 3:50 PM

Subject: [tied] Re: Short and long vowels

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tombrophey" <TBrophey@......> wrote:
> I am unclear on whether the laryngeal survives this.
> I am unclear on what time frame you think that the zero-grade
change happens in.

Oh! I think I see what you are saying:
The laryngeal does not survive _in_addition_to_ the long vowel (i.e.
V:H); rather it survives _as_a_part_ of it (i.e. V: = VH).
And you _do_ think that zero-grade is a _Post-PIE_ phenomenon.

(My aside: It may not even be necessary then to say that the
laryngeal "lengthens" the vowel in PIE -- we may only need say that
it prevents it from changing to A, the Ablaut vowel.)

 

***

Patrick:

 

For me, that is the crux of the matter. These PIE long vowels correspond in quality to the quality of the vowels I find in other language families: PIE *e: = Sumerian i; PIE *a: = Sumerian a; PIE *o: = Sumerian u.

 

***

So if I understand you correctly, your theory is that Gk (only) *aH
is realized as /aa/, *eH as /ee/, and *oH as /oo/.
Zero-grade then reduces these in Gk (only) to a, e, and o,
respectively, as attested.

Conversely, in II (only) *aH, *eH, and *oH all become *aH, which is
realized as /aç/.
Zero-grade operating separately in II then reduces this to /ç/,
which is voiced as i, as attested.

If this is what you mean, then the weak point of your theory is the
notion that zero-grade operates separately in the daughter
languages. IMHO the economy of only one laryngeal is far outweighed
by the separate processes.

Tom

***

Patrick:

 

This is exactly what I have been trying to convey.

 

Please see my earlier response to your comments.

 

I do not see the zero-grade problem in the same light.

 

It seems to me that zero-gade must have passed along the way of reduce-grade.

 

Let me know if my other response helps clarify these matters at all.

 

 
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