From: Lisa
Message: 39189
Date: 2005-07-11
>So am I right in thinking it's substrate in PGmc?
> cf the Belgian towns
> Braine-l'Alleud/Eigenbrakel
> Braine-le-Comte/s'Gravenbrakel
--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott" <BMScott@...> wrote:
>
> OE <éad> 'riches, prosperity, good fortune, happiness'; this
> is also the onomastic theme in such OE names as <Éadweard>,
> <Éadgár>, <Éada> etc.; the last is thus cognate with <Odo>.
> PGmc. *au > OE éa is regular.
GAH. I knew that but completely forgot it. Thank you.
> On the other side, OED2 mentions OSax <óðil>.
>
> I'm not sure that the Gothic is attested, but it's seen in
> Goth. <áudags> 'blessed' (cf. OE <éadig>). ON <auðr> goes
> with OHG <o:t>, OE <éad>, etc.
Ah. I wasn't [/ still am not =P ] sure if ON au always came from PGmc
au or o:.
--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Wordingham"
<richard.wordingham@...> wrote:
>
> 1. Proto-Germanic *d and *ð are the same phoneme.
Allophones of a phoneme, you mean?
I was under the impression that PGmc had *ð (and *þ), which later/soon
changed in certain environments and in certain daughters to d. ?
Part of the reason why I was confused, I think, is that the link I
provided had *ð in some places and *d in other places. Oversight by
the author?
> 2. Onions gives the stem as *o:þ-, *aþ-, and regards the 'noble'
> meaning as coming from the same stem.
The same, huh? Interesting. Why the voicing in some daughters (and
seemingly in PGmc for *auðaz), then?
And why such a disconnect from 'noble' to 'inherited property'? This
makes me wonder if it is indeed a separate thing.
> 3. The OE form is attested as <oeþel> as well as _e:þel_, so the vowel
> here is an umlaut of *o:. The noun suffix shows a far bit of variation:
Ah. Would the OE <oeþel> have been pronounced /oeþel/?
> OE: -el, -la, -le, -ol, -l
> OS, OHG: -il, -al, -la
> ON: -al, -ill, -ull
>
> Gothic apparently only shows -ils, and Old Frisian -le.
>
> Given these forms, umlaut does not seem particularly predictable,
> though there should be a correlation with vowel while it survives.
I don't think I caught the reason for the -[V]l in the one version of
the word/noun. Could you explain?
> 4. Proto-Germanic *au > German au before labials, but not in other
> environments, e.g *auzon > German _Ohr_ 'ear'.
Ah, I see.
Thank you for all your help & input!