Re: [tied] Re: Schwa (Was PIE Reconstruction)

From: Miguel Carrasquer
Message: 39151
Date: 2005-07-09

On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 12:22:42 -0500, Patrick Ryan
<proto-language@...> wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: elmeras2000<mailto:jer@...>
> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 7:35 AM
> Subject: [tied] Re: Schwa (Was PIE Reconstruction)
>
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:cybalist@yahoogroups.com>, "Patrick Ryan" <proto-
> language@...<mailto:language@...>...> wrote:
>
> > Yes, you are right, I do not understand.
> >
> > I thought we were discussing *g^hdhem-, 'earth' (*g^h-dem-).
> > I thought the word in the original posting about pronunciation
> difficulty ("dhghem") was a simple transposition error.
> >
> > What on Earth is your *d(h)ég^h-o:m above? I know no such word
> for PIE.
>
> You don't? Fair enough. The word for "earth" is Hitt. tekan, gen.
> tagnas, which must represent a more original form of the paradigm
> which was changed in the other branches by introduction of the
> product of the cluster *d(h)g^h- as it had been in the locative, **d
> (h)g^h-ém(-i) > IE *g^h{th}ém(-i) (Ved. ks.ámi). This is one of the
> mainstays of the understanding of the "thorn" clusters in IE. It is
> of course also one of the basic arguments for an Indo-Hittite model,
> indicating as it does that Anatolian was the first branch to split
> away from the IE unity. This is all classical knowledge by now.
>
> Jens
>
>
> ***
> Patrick:
>
> Some very competent linguists of the past (Benveniste, for one) looked at the
>disconnect between Hittite and _ALL_ the other IE-derived languages

Nonsense. Only Greek has the metathesis (*d(h)g^ho:m >
khtho:n), since Skt. ks.- is inconclusive.

The order dental-velar is proven by Hittite <tekan> and
Tocharian A <tkam.>. That's conclusive.

Wether the inital consonant was *d- or *dh- is undecidable:
Hitt. does not distinguish between *d- and *dh- (or *t-),
and the cluster *dhg^ h- that we have elsewhere can just as
well be from *dg^h- by assimilation.

(I would still opt for *dhg^h- in view of PIE *dheig^h-
"clay, earth (as material) => pottery, wall" and Kartv.
*tiqa- (i.e *thiqha-) "clay, earth", but that's of course
circumstancial evidence.)

=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
mcv@...