Re: [tied] Problems with in-laws [was: Alb. vjehërr]

----- Original Message -----

From: Piotr Gasiorowski

To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 7:15 AM

Subject: Re: [tied] Problems with in-laws [was: Alb. vjehërr]

Piotr Gasiorowski wrote:

> The PIE stem was, in fact, thematic *swék^ur-o- for the male in-law,
>  *swek^rú-h2 for the feminine (not that the distinction makes much
> formal difference in Albanian). The relation between the two is of
> course metathetic, though the details are not clear (at least to me).
> We have the variation *-wR.C- ~ *-RuC- in a few lexemes, so it should
> be something like **swek^wr.-h2 > *swek^ruh2...

By the way, would anybody on the list be interested in discussing the
PIE in-law terms for their own sake? They look like compounds, but I'm
not aware of a satisfactory identification of their constituents; those
offered so far have the air of folk etymology about them. "Of one's own
blood" (*swe-kruh2-) cannot be accepted for formal reasons (no *k^ in
the 'blood' word), and Szemerényi's *swe-k^oru- 'family-head', apart
from requiring some suspect formal manipulations, assumes the highly
questionable semantic reconstruction of *swe- as 'family'. It's tempting
to see the *swe- element here (as in *swé-sor-) -- so tempting that
etymologists tend to take it as self-evident "whatever the second part
means", but isn't this a mere guess in the dark?

To get the ball rolling, what about a connection with *(s)we(:)k^-
'wish', as in Gk. hek-ónt- 'of one's own will', Skt. us'-ánt-/-at-
'wishing' from vás.t.i/us'ánti 'to wish, desire'. Hitt. we:k-zi 'wish,
ask' (which suggests an original Narten root)? The 'father-in-law' word
could be a substantivisation (with shifted stress) of a thematic
adjective derived from the hypothetical deverbal noun *swé(:)k^-wr.
'wish, request' --> *swek^-ur-ó- --> *swék^-ur-o- '(the person) entitled
to grant your request' (when you ask for your prospective wife's
hand)... Any comments?

Piotr


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Patrick:

 

From 'desire' to 'grant desire' is a leap I would be reluctant to make; however, it is an interesting and possible solution.

 

My own speculation would be closer to the previously mentioned one.

 

When IE-speakers, who, I assume, were patrilocal, came into Europe, they did not find an empty land. And, much as I think her feminism overly influenced her outlook, I think that Gimbutas is essentially right, and that it is extremely likely that they found matrilocal non-agriculturists already in place.  

 

Depending on the area, accomodations to existing customs were probably made. For those areas that remained matrilocal, at least initially, the incoming son-in-law would have needed a term to address his father-in-law. *atta, 'consort of the mother', and *appa, 'progenitor', were both inappropriate, even if used honorifically.

 

A term which proclaimed the bridegroom's new allegiance and responsibilities would have been most appropriate. But it had to be invented since the IE's probably did not have an appropriate term for an arrangement that was foreign to them.

 

I think everyone would admit that swek^uro- is quite unusual as far as its composition is concerned. I think its complexity suggests strongly that it is a relatively late formation.

 

As for the element *swe-, I incline to think of it more as 'clan' or even simply 'same' or 'good' rather than 'family' per se.

 

As for *^ker-, rather than what I consider to be the derived meaning 'head', I think this mean be 'antler' or 'horn'; and the *-u, rather than an adjectival formant, an indication of the dual.

 

The final element I  see as *-ro, intensive, so that the entire compound would mean, 'great clan pair of horns/antlers', an honorific for the new boss.

 

This implies, of course, that another IE term for 'mother/father-in-law' was used for pre-European-invasion relatives.

 

 

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