Re: [tied] PIE *CVC roots as Punctual (Aorist)

----- Original Message -----

From: elmeras2000

To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 8:25 PM

Subject: Re: [tied] PIE *CVC roots as Punctual (Aorist)

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Ryan" <proto-
language@......> wrote:
> Sorry, I will make corrections and re-send.
>
> Patrick
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Patrick Ryan<mailto:proto-language@......>
>   To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
>   Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 3:40 PM
>   Subject: Re: [tied] PIE *CVC roots as Punctual (Aorist)
>
>
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     From: Patrick Ryan<mailto:proto-language@......>
>     To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
>     Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 10:58 AM
>     Subject: Re: [tied] PIE *CVC roots as Punctual (Aorist)
>
>
>     I asserted, some time ago on this list, that an unmarked *CVC
verbal root (that does not terminate in *-H, *-y, or *-w) in PIE was
inherently punctual. This idea was denied by another list
correspondent.
>
>     Since then, I have made a study of the *CVC roots listed in
Rix (LIV), and have compiled the following statistics:
>
>     The total number of roots in Rix is, according to our count:
1138.
>
>     The total number of *CVC verbal roots that do not terminate in
*-H, *-y, or *-w, is, according to our count: 212, or 18.6% of the
total number of roots.
>
>     Of the counted *CVC verbal roots, 184 form presents by
additions to the root in order to obtain a durative meaning; that is
86.7%.
>
>     Of the counted *CVC verbal roots, 72 form root aorists; that
is 33.9%.
>
>     On the basis of the figures compiled here, the proposition
that any PIE *CVC-root that did not terminate in *-H, *-y, or *-w
was inherently punctual, is supported.



Oh, I see now how right you are! Leaving avowedly questionable cases
aside, the index of LIV notes 25 cases of a root present from a CVC
root (not ending in -y, -w or -H). The index gives 47 secured root
aorists from CVC roots (not ending in -y/w/H). Now the total number
of secured root presents is 151, that of root aorists is 264. Thus
there is a 25 in 151 (16,56 %) probability that a CVC root not
ending in -y/w/H forms a root present, while the likelihood that it
forms a root aorist is a high as 47 in 264 (17.80 %).

I'm sure you have made a big discovery. Please tell the world what
it means.

If questionable examples are included, the figures are 34 and 70, to
be weighed against 222 and 405, i.e. a 15.31 % probability that a
CVC root not ending in -y/w/H forms a root present, and a 17.28 %
probability that it forms a root aorist. That looks even better for
you, so please do tell us what it means.

Jens

***

Patrick writes:

 

What makes me think that you are writing with tongue in cheek?

 

I think that the most important observation to be made here is that 86.7% of the *CVC roots find it necessary to form presents _other than as root presents_ with one formant or another, or, in addition to root presents.

 

Though I do not doubt that there are a sizable number of root presents recorded, it is my suspicion that they all started out as statives. If a root present could so easily be formed, what would be the point of forming presents with other formants? I believe these other formants had to be employed because root presents were, at the time, statives.

Patrick

***


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