Re: [tied] Re: Latin *accu ? - > or how to obtain the misising A

On 6/4/05, alex <alxmoeller@...> wrote:

> pielewe wrote:
> *auso > vësh in Alb.
> *auso > auz in Rom.
> The "au" inside the word can get reduced. Example " eu caut" ( I am
> looking for) is the same as "eu cat" ( I am lokking for).
> Now, the funn beginn here.
> There is Alb. "ar"= gold, there is Rom. "aur"= gold both considered to
> be loans from Latin "aurum"
> On another side, there is Rom. "ureche" from Vulgar Latin *oricla and
> there is Alb. "ogur" (fate)
> which I suspect this is a loan from Vulgar Latin *ogurus < augurs.
> If these things are correct, then we cannot have two treatmens of the
> same Latin word at the begin of the word. Where should be the
> explanation? "ureche" from *oricla and *ogur from *oguri should be words
> which entered both languages from Vulgar Latin and "aur" and "ar" should
> be considered as loans from a previous contact with the Romans. (this
> because we don't have stil strong examples for a rothacism of
> intervocalic "s" in Alb. and "Rom."
> OK, initial "a" cannot come from Latin . My opinion is this "a" we mean
> here was a demonstrative for feminine which in both languages stil is
> the definite article for feminine. In Rom. this is "-a" and in Alb. this
> is actualy "e"(< a)
> in the compositum with "jo" and "j" the "a" remained stil "a" in Alb,
> thus today there is ai and ajo for "this male, this female"; the forms
> with "t" are new building since even for genitive/dative/ablative of
> ai/ajo ( which are: i atij/atij/atij and i saj/asaj/atë/asaj) the older
> forms are with "s" and "sh".
> See "ai" with Ablativ "asi" or "si", for feminine "ajo" there is older
> forms for Ablative "asish", "sish" or "syresh" and for feminineplural
> "ato" we have older forms of Ablative "asosh" and "sosh"
>
> I will like to conclude, the initial "a" here in these composita is the
> original demonstrative which was compouded with
> the person which was meant. a+j (this he) > ai, a+jo(< *ja) > ajo (this
> she)
> the same in Romanian : a+l (this he) > ãl, a+ja(< *ja) > aia (this
> she)
>
> Observation: considering the examples from Romance brought by Miguel
> where apprently there is an accidental "a", in Rom. this is a general
> aspect. All the demonstrativa and locative adverbs have "a".
> Alex

************
Dear Alex,

Albanian <ogur>, like Boshnakian too, is a loan from Turkish <ugur>,
interj. Happy! Cf. negative form <ugur•suz> 'unlucky, unhappy' and
<ugur•ola> Happy! Have a good trip!, derived from <ogur> and optative
<ola> of the verb <olmak> 'to be'.
Pronominal stems *so- and *saH2- are used only in singular nominative
and in other cases are used supletive forms, but it's, I am afraid,
high mathematics.

Konushevci