Petusek wrote:
> It's a bit controversial, because the exact way the expression
> appeared as a name of the Moravian region is unsure.
But it isn't attested for periods prior to the 16th-17th centuries, is
it?
> Oh yes! :-) That's because of their national food "halus^ky s bryndzu:"
This'd be <gãlu$cã cu brânzã> in Romanian (Hungarian also has the word:
<galuska> ['gOluSkO]).
> (It's bryndza in Slovak, although I've also heard some people from
> Kos^ice pronounce it [brimza], which must be a dissimilative change in
> the East.) It's quite popular in Moravia, especially in Valas^sko. :-)
Sorry, I mixed up the Slovak variant with the one used in Hungary
(brenze). (A curiosity: in the former Eastern Hungary, i.e. Transylvania
and Banat, Hungarian native-speakers don't use this term; they
know it only from Romanian.)
> George, do you think the term "Olaz^sky' Rom" (as opposed to the
> ordinary "Ro'm", speaking the Slovak dialect of Romany), which is the
> self-denomination of the second largest Romany group in the Czech
> Republic may be related?
I know virtually nothing of those Romany communities. But I've
heard that Hungarian in Hungary proper some times call their
Gypsies <oláh>, i.e. Vlakhs; so, common people even think that
Roma are also Romanians (of course, Hungarians in central and
Western Hungary, and in the former province "Felvidék", i.e.
today's Slovakia, cannot judge this, in contrast with Hungarians
living in Transylvania and the Romanian and Serbian Banate,
since the latter understand/speak Romanian; however, based on this
knowledge, they aren't able to understand a iota from Romany
dialects.
Another thing that I've remarked via western (chiefly German
and Austrian) TV & press reports concerning Roma problems in
Bohemia and Moravia: onomastics. Most of those people have
such 2nd names as Farkas, Varga, Horváth, Gyöngyösi and above
all Lakatos. These are Hungarian names (and extr'ly frequent
among Hungarians at that). So, a hint that those people
migrated westwards coming from Slovakia (i.e. North-Western
regions of former greater Hungary, incl. western Carpathian
Ukraine, with Mucac^evo & Uz^gorod, i.e. Munkács & Ungvár.).
A couple of years ago some Ger. TV channels broadcast an
interesting report on some lady from the Czech Republic, a
star singer in the local Roma music. The German reporters
team accompanied her and her band to a visit they paid to
their native place, namely a very poor spot somewhere in
Eastern Slovakia. (I can't remember the woman's or the band's
name.)
> Yes, so what could be the origin of that particular word?
> Some dictionaries mention the Modern Greek term <ago'rion>
> or even the Turkish word <ogul>.
Whether Greek agorion, or Turkish oglu: I dare infer it
wasn't transported thither by Walachian... wandering shepherds. :))
Since in Romanian AFAIK there isn't such a word, and most
Romanians don't know that the Turkish people name suffix -og˘lu
means "son of." OTOH, I don't know whether the Aromanians
(living in both Macedonias, Southern Albania, Northern Greece
and Bulgaria do have in their vocabulary a loanword related
to Gr. agorion. If yes, this might be a hint that those primordial
Valas^ske who settled down in Moravia might have been Aromanians.
(The linguistic difference between Romanian and Aromanian is
(at least) as betw. Czech and Slovak.)
> Or is it possible to etymologize the expression on the basis
> of IE?
This will be answered by cybalists who are connoisseurs of
the... Scythian-Sarmatian-Alan IE link. :)
George