Re: [tied] IE *de:(y)- 'bind'.

----- Original Message -----

From: elmeras2000

To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 6:52 PM

Subject: Re: [tied] IE *de:(y)- 'bind'.

 

<snip>

 

>   ***
>   Patrick wrote:
>
>   And you do not think that has any bearing on *-to as a future-
prospective formant?
>   ***

Not as I am informed at the moment, no.

***

Patrick writes:

 

In PIE, -*t(o) as an agentive formant of nouns is _exactly_ what we should expect if -*to has future-prospective force in verbs.

 

I therefore consider the comparison I made among *mór-to-s, Sumerian -ed (for *et), and Egyptian sDm.t.f, sDm.tj.fj, and infinitives in .t validated.

*** 

>
>   JER:
>   >   If the remarkable Indic forms with iraj- are related it must
be
>   a
>   >   laryngeal.
>   >
>   >   ***
>   >   Patrick wrote:
>   >
>   >   *H3o- as a prefix also contains a 'laryngeal'.
>
>   You can't derive Indic ir- from *H3or-.
>
>   ***
>   Patrick wrote:
>
>   *H3reg^-, zero-grade.

*H3reg^- is full grade, its zero-grade is *H3rg^-. You apparently
operate on the assumption that a presumed preverb "*H3o-" will take
to ablauting in its position before the verb. That is not a normal
behaviour of preverbs. The evasive "preverb o-" is not known outside
of Greek, except for the isolated *ó-sd-o-s 'branch'. The laryngeal
in *H3reg^- is directly proved by Hittite harganau- 'finger' and
Avest. &r&zu- adj. 'erect' or m. 'finger', reflecting *H3r.g^-ú- and
in part a factitive verb *H3r.g^-n-u- 'make erect, stretch out'.

 

***

Patrick writes:

 

It seems to me that you define things to suit the argument of the moment.

 

*H3o is full-grade; *reg^- is full-grade.

 

The first thing to be noticed is that, in Pokorny, all entries under *1. reg^- that pertain directly to 'king' and 'rule as king' have *e: not *e; including Old Indian rá:jati, 'is king, rules'.

 

The only correct conclusion to draw from this is that the root for 'king' is *re:g^- not *reg^-.

 

In no PIE-derived language does 'king' show up with any element corresponding to an initial *H3o- or *H3-. It is, therefore, not only unjustified to reconstruct 'king' as *H3reg^-, it is also simply ridiculous.

 

This is also supported by Sumerian rîg, 'king'.

 

So, it is obvious that the root listed by Pokorny as *1. reg^- should be kept strictly separate from *re:g^-, 'king'.

 

As far as the rest of it goes, it is almost a waste to write: PIE roots are *CVC. A form like *H3reg^- must, therefore, contain the zero-grade of *H3o- + *reg^-.  Whether this *H3o- is the preverb or not, this is what the first element is in *H3reg^-. Jens mentioned the form irajyáti. Initial i- is what we expect of an initial laryngeal in zero-grade in Old Indian.

 

And the great brunt of the attested derivations do not show any trace of *H3(o)- so it is necessary to conclude that it is an added element to the root *reg^-.

*** 

Jens




------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater?
Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/TzSHvD/SOnJAA/79vVAA/GP4qlB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->

 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    cybalist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/