Vowel Length in Ossetic (was Re: [tied] Thracian place-names)

From: david_russell_watson
Message: 37197
Date: 2005-04-15

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "david_russell_watson"
<liberty@...> wrote:

Sorry, I meant to change the name of the thread the first time,
since I didn't intend with this post to weigh in on one side or
the other of the matter of Thracian place-names.

David


--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@...>
wrote:
>
> There's no "short a" problem. In that part of NE Iranian *a: was
> shortened pretty early; it attracted stress and resisted elision
> because of its former length, but otherwise it was just short *a.
> It is short in Modern Ossetic, too.

and

> The development of NE Iranian vowels can be reconstructed on the
> basis of comparative analysis (involving Ossetic and its closest
> relatives), which indicates that the original contrast of quantity
> became one of "strong" vs. "weak" vowels at one point, well before
> the individual history of Ossetic began.

Do I understand this correctly, that there is supposed to be no
distinction of vowel length in Ossetic?

There are recordings of Digoron at
http://titus.fkidg1.uni-frankfurt.de/texte/iranica/osset/maglaqt.htm ,
which I've been analyzing, and both closed syllables and
syllables containing one of the "strong" vowels ('a', 'e', 'o',
and 'ij') seem to be quite distinctly longer than open syllables
containing a "weak" vowel ( æ, i, or u ), and regardless of
stress.

Some examples follow, which I've divided into syllables on
the third line, and marked the stressed syllable with `
as well. On the fourth line I've given to what my ear is
the length of each syllable.



Sentence 4
æma dæ bærgæ zæhuj
æ.ma`.dæ.bær.gæ`.zæ.huj
S.L.S.L.S.S.L

Compare the 'a' of 'æma' with the second 'æ' of 'bærgæ'.
They are both stressed, but the 'a' seems clearly longer
than the 'æ'. Compare also the length of the second 'æ'
of 'bærgæ', which is stressed, with that of the immediately
following 'æ' of 'zæhuj' which is not stressed.

_______________________________________________________
Sentence 6
bærgæ fæzzæhuj
bær.gæ`.fæz.zæ.huj
L.S.L.S.L

Compare the rhythim of 'bær.gæ.fæzz' here with the
'bær.gæ.zæ' of Sentence 5.

_______________________________________________________
Sentence 16
"Kumæ cæun?! Mænæn mæ card funukæj;
ku.mæ`.cæ.un mæ.næn`.mæ.card`.fu.nu`.kæj.
S.S.S.L S.L.S.L.S.S.L

Compare the length of the first and second 'u' of 'funukæj'.
One is stressed, the other not, but both seem to be of the
same length. The stressed 'card' on one side of them is
clearly longer, as is the unstressed 'kæj' on the other
side of them.

_______________________________________________________
Sentence 19
mæ madæ 'ma mæ fidæj
mæ.ma`.dæ.ma.mæ.fi`.dæj
S.L.S.L.S.S.L

Notice how the second 'ma', which is unstressed, is clearly
longer than the two 'æ' that flank it. The 'i' of 'fidæj'
here is also clearly short, despite being stressed.

_______________________________________________________
Sentence 20
mæ madæ 'ma mæ fidæ
mæ.ma`.dæ.ma.mæ.fi`.dæ
S.L.S.L.S.S.S

This sample is nearly identical to that from Sentence 19.
Although in this one, if the 'a' of the second 'ma' is
significantly greater than that of the flanking 'æ', it
is not so clear to my ear.

_______________________________________________________
Sentence 24
kumædær bacæwæj,
ku.mæ`.dær.ba`.cæ.wæj,
S.L.L.L.S.L

Compare the second 'æ' of 'kumædær' and the first 'a' of
'bacæwæj'. Both are stressed but the 'a' is longer.

_______________________________________________________
Sentence 36
dzæbæxæj
dzæ.bæ`.xæj
S.S.L

_______________________________________________________
Sentence 38
nur dær ma cæruncæ dzæbæxæj.
nur`.dær.ma.cæ.run`.cæ.dzæ.bæ`.xæj
L.L.L.S.L.S.S.S.L

_______________________________________________________
Sentence 26
dæ salan beræ wæt!" rarastæj balcimæ.
dæ.salan`.be`.ræ.wæt ra`.ras.tæj.bal`.ci.mæ
S.S.L.L.S.L L.L.L.L.S.S

This one appears to be a counterexample, and the only one
that I could find. The first 'a' of 'salan' is written as
if a strong vowel, and should receive the stress accordingly,
but is neither stressed, nor does it sound to me any longer
than the preceding 'æ'. However to my ear neither does it
sound any more open than 'æ', and I wonder if this isn't
some sort of orthographic irregularity. This is a borrowing
of the word 'sala:m', from either Persian, Arabic, or Turkic
(I don't know which), whose Persian and Arabic forms also
have a short 'a' in the first syllable (I can't say for
Turkic).

?
_______________________________________________________

If anybody should listen to these recordings, please also
let me know what you think of the pronunciation of 'w'. Is
it not labio-dental?

David