Re: Celtic influence and rule over germanic peoples before roman in

Even though Germanic and Celtic must have been distinct (and probably
mutually intelligble) branches of IE long before the Romans entered
the scene, there might not have been a clearcut border between the
two - at least not one, of which they were aware themselves. Before
the Roman conquest there seem to have lived tribes, which we would
describe as linguictic Celts on both sides of the Rhine, but after
the Rhine border was established, it became at the same time a
cultural and linguistic, so that original Celtic-speaking tribes on
the right side were eventually Germanised and de-urbanised in
opposition to the Romanised Celts on the other side of the Rhine (cf.
P.S. Wells, Beyond Celts, Germans and Scythians, London 2001).

Could you be more specific about what names you consider Celtic in
Old Swedish and Old Danish history?

The leaders of the Cimbrians and Teutones had names, which appear to
be Celtic rather than Germanic: Boiorix and Teutobodus. These two
tribes were considered Germanic since the time of Caesar (when the
term "Germanic" was introduced in Roman discourse), but it is not
certain, to say the least of it, if they did originate in the
Jutlandic peninsula as claimed by the ancient authors (cf. Kimbrike
Chersonesos in Ptolemy) and by early modern antiquarians relying on
Danish toponyms (Himmerland = *himbra- < *kimbra-, Thy < *þiuðô- <
*teutâ). I suspect that the tribal names Cimbri, Teutones and
Ambrones were in fact originally appellatives, which could be
attached to social units in different parts of this ethnically mixed
Germanic-Celtic continuum. But that is another story.

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Carl" <datalampa@...> wrote:
>
>
> I´m new to this group and I haven´t really gone through all
the
> messages yet so I´m taking the risk of bringing up an old subject
> here. What I wanted to know more about and discuss more thuroughly
is
> the possibility of a fullscale celtic influence on germanic speech
and
> culture in the years before roman invasion of Gaul and Britain. I
have
> had a theory for at least 20 years now that some celtic tribes had
had
> some kind of dominion over certain parts of germanic lands in the
last
> millenium BC. I´m not talking about the obvious influences that
we
all
> know (the words iron and rich) but the kind of dominance we know
from
> recorded history of France and Italy when germanic kings ruled over
> romance folks. They steered the small kingdoms but did not influence
> the way their subjects spoke much. That is my theory.
>
> The reason for my theory comes from the odd names in old Swedish and
> danish history or legend. Some names don´t fit in with the usual
> germanic names but are indeed IE in origin. The oldest evidence for
> iron mining in Scandinavia is from 750 BC and from all we know the
> word iron is a celtic one. It´s a compelling thought, what if
> archaeologists and linguists could meet on this one and either love
or
> hate my theory. So far, all I have discussed this with haven´t
said
> anything. I realize that my knowledge in either field cannot compare
> with that of experienced linguists and archaeologists so I´m
going
to
> stop there and let you decide whether my theory holds ground or can
be
> cast to the lions.
>
> /Carl