Re: [tied] Meaning of Optative, Subjunctive; *-si in infinitives an

> Throughout his book Andrew Sihler frequently translates IE optatives with
> the English conditional formant, ... in >addition to occasional
> translations as "I may love" (for philoie:n) and "I may hire out" (for
> misthoie:n). Now is this >translation of the optative by the English
> conditional correct?

When he's translating Greek, it's fine. Greek uses of the optative include
conditionals (I would ...), and indefinites ("I might ..").

>Is this the meaning of the optative?

Each daughter language of PIE developed the resources of PIE in its own
ways, though we can often recover a basic meaning of various forms. But we
aren't able to say precisely how teh three modds were distinguished in PIE,
and there may not even have been a "basic meaning" of the optative, although
a connection with wishing seems likely.

>And is the other translation, the one indicating possibility ("I may
>love"), also correct?

Yes, for Greek.

>Isn't a wish or desire expressed by desiderative forms, or by a verb such
>as *wel-, meaning "want (to)"?

Yes, but languages often have more than one way of saying something.

> isn't the precative also an expression of a wish or desire?

Yes, and it can equally be optative ("me: genoito!")

>Furthermore, how does the optative differ from the subjunctive?

Particular languages make particular rules.

>was there any difference to begin with?

Certainly in form, but it is hard to be certain of differences in function.

> I find the meaning of the subjunctive and optative difficult to identify

Think of them both as non-factual statements. That coves a vast range of
possibilities. In fact in Latin, the subjunctive really means nothing more
than "and there's something else going on." It could be cause, result,
concession, counter-factual condition, wish, or even that the statement is
put into someone else's head or mouth. Latin usually adds another word to
indicate which of these possibilites it is. But whatever it is, it isn't
just a simple statement of fact.

The other question I'll deal with in a separate posting.

Peter