Re[6]: [tied] Evening/Night (was Re: The "Mother" Problem)

At 11:02:41 AM on Sunday, February 13, 2005, Patrick Ryan
wrote:

> From: Jens Elmegaard Rasmussen<mailto:jer@...>

>> On Sun, 13 Feb 2005, Patrick Ryan wrote:

>>> <wolves'> is pronounced /wulv-z:/ with the /z/ sustained
>>> longer than than in <wolves>, or made into a separate
>>> syllable; <wolves> is /wulvz/ - at least in my
>>> Midwestern English dialect.

>>> Perhaps in some dialects, <wolves> is pronounced
>>> identically to <wolves'> but not in mine.

>> So how would you phonemicize <wolves> and <wolves'>? Is
>> there a phoneme /z:/ (long voiced dental sibilant)? Or is
>> there a word-final geminate /zz/?

> Good question. I really do not know how to identify a
> word-final geminate unless it is followed by a sonorant of
> some kind.

> I may have been hasty in identifying a long /z:/. Upon
> reflection, it appears to me that the principal difference
> is syllabification. I think it is also possible that
> syllabification in this context leads to a long
> pronunciation.

> Perhaps some other native English speakers could weigh in
> with their thoughts?

This 56-year-old native speaker, who has lived on both
coasts and in the Midwest, has rarely if ever encountered
any spoken distinction between <wolves> and <wolves'>. In
short, I don't think that there's anything to be explained
here, at least for the vast majority of U.S. speakers.

Brian