Rob wrote:
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alex" <alxmoeller@...> wrote:
>
>> so if IE have had not a true labiovelar in horse, Latin builded the
>> labiovelar from the cluster "kw"? How that?
>
> To my knowledge, Italic also treated both /kw/ and /kW/ the same.
> The true Latin form for 'horse', however, is ecus -- equus is a later
> formation (I forget the exact term for this, something like "neo-
> archaism"). Cf. cum for quom, secundus for sequondos, etc.
> Basically, Latin had delabialized labiovelars before back vowels.
>
> - Rob
that is why I lanced the question. Basically Latin had delabialised the
labiovelars before back vowels, later the Romance delabialised the
labiovelars before palatal vowels as well. A such "neoarchaisms" could
not take place in the speach of the vulgar people but it could be just
because of the traditionalists grammarians. How ever, there is remains
Sardinian "ebba(?)" and Rom. "iapa" which requests a labiovelar there
after the known rules.
By myself I am very sceptical versus the labiovelars but the reason here
is more profane maybe. There is an alternance (not explained enough) of
"k" with "p" and of "g" with "b". It is true, this alternance is just
when the "k,g" are followed by "i,y" but the alternance is not supposed
oder deduced, it is a living and real fact. And since the plural form
could have been used for remake a new sg form, I get the change of "k"
to "p" without the presence of any labiovelar, just trough the
alternance I spoke about. I gues an example is a bit more evident.
There is actually the IE *lukos" which could make a plural *luki; the
alternance of "ki" with "pi" allows the another form of the word which
is "lupi". These are facts, not deductions. The deduction is here:
-from the plural "lupi" was remade an sg "lupu". This fact is not
recent. We know about this alternance even in pre-roman and roman times
where we find the name of one city with thes both forms. For instance,
"Ulpiana" versus "Ulciana".
In how far this alternance "ki/pi", "gi/bi" affected the whole IE
spectrum once, it remains open. But a such alternative makes very
questionable even the existence of the labiovelars. I know, a such
assumptions can be considered a blasphemy by some people but it is an
explanation which, I repeat myself, appears to be very plausible since
the facts are there, even if there can be an another explanation for
these facts.
Alex
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